# Meta Hardware, AI Governance, and Media Consolidation

**Podcast:** Pivot
**Published:** 2026-09-25

## Transcript

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Banning the press is like holding your breath to punish the air.
Hi, everyone.
This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.
And I'm Scott Galloway.
Scott, we're both in hotel rooms.
It's so seamy.
Yeah, where are you?
I'm in Vienna, Austria.
Oh, God, that sounds like a big speaking fee.
You're in a big speaking fee stand.
No, I'm doing—I did a favor for a school here.
They did fly me here.
But anyway, you know I speak German.
I don't know if you know that.
I did know that because you wanted to be a spy, but you're like, I'm here and I'm queer and I wouldn't let you.
But you know Austria's biggest accomplishment.
Edelweiss?
I don't know what.
No, convincing everyone that Hitler was German.
Oh.
Start that.
Open that.
Open that tonight at your talk.
I think I shat.
Open with that one.
You know, it's great.
I just ate at the moment.
That is good.
That is good.
That is good.
I don't usually like a Hitler joke.
The guy, the dude was Austrian.
Yeah, he's, people think of, people think of him as being pretty German.
Nope, Austrian.
Yeah.
He's my favorite actor.
Anything he stars in, I'll watch.
Seriously.
I know.
Anything with a World War II and color.
That's the kind of shit I'm watching now.
The whole discovery success has been about that.
But there's a lot of these videos of Trump yelling at the pilots of Air Force One and all the helicopters.
And so they call him Hissy Fittler, which is funny.
That's pretty good.
That's pretty good.
Let's not make any more Hitler jokes.
Let's not do it.
No.
Let's not.
Anyway, I'm here in Austria.
Totally appropriate.
It's a lovely, beautiful place.
And we're both in hotel rooms.
It's very seamy.
And for all of those men out there that have been texting me that they find me offensive.
Yeah.
And that I should really dial it back.
Yeah, I saw that.
No, well, I've been contemplating and taking the remarks seriously as I make their wife's boyfriend a sandwich.
Oh, my God.
You stop.
Is that wrong?
People are mad at us.
Well, no, not mad at us.
I am in the tabloids now because I just— No, no, no.
People are mad and disgusted with me.
People are just like, I don't know.
Oh, Tara, she's leaving.
No, no, no.
Now I'm in the tabloids.
I'm leaving because— You're in the tabloids.
Yeah, no.
I'm in the tabloids now because the reason I'm leaving is because the person who runs CBS News, I used to go out with their wife, and that seems to be interesting.
That's my reason for leaving, which is insane.
So I can verify.
I can validate for all the people out there.
That's not why you're leaving.
You're leaving just because you're a pain in the ass and really hurtable.
I'm a pain in the— ass.
That is correct.
That is correct.
I'm a pain in the ass and I just want to go.
Just leave me alone.
So anyway, I've said this many times and I want them to stop because it's...
It's just irritating.
I just want to go.
That's all.
I don't think these are good owners.
When you say I want them to stop, stop what, Kara?
Just leave.
Well, all this leaking and all that, like even covering it.
Who cares?
Who cares?
Me.
I'm small.
If it was like Anderson Cooper.
Well, yeah, but you keep announcing you're leaving.
No, let me do that.
Don't make me dance.
I'm leaving.
No, I'm just, people ask me.
But I brought the receipt.
You're being a little bit of a diva.
I understand, but that's because I'm, you know what?
They call me the spirit animal of CNN.
Lots of people there are very happy.
The spirit.
That's what Lachlan Carter called me.
I know I'm there.
I am speaking for a lot of people.
I think you're more the spirit airlines.
The spirit airlines.
I'm just going to, let's play the receipts.
I'm walking right out of there the day they get there.
No way I'm working for these terrible people.
I will be leaving.
I don't care to stick around.
I'm leaving.
I'm as soon as I can.
I don't want to work for the Ellicens and I don't want to work for their handpicked minions because I think they're incompetent.
Anyway, look, I'm just going, you're right, I should hush, but I just can't.
So, as I said to my ex-wife, okay, then leave.
Oh, okay.
You know, I like them so much.
I like the CNN people so much.
Actually, that's not true.
My ex is a wonderful woman.
Yes, yes, yes.
Exes are always wonderful.
Our separation, unlike your separation from CNN, was tragically amicable.
Oh, was it?
Most of mine were.
Most of mine.
But in general, you know, Megan's always around.
You've seen Megan showing up to a million things.
I was married to her for a long time.
Yeah, I like Megan.
She's great.
She was literally, my favorite story about Megan was I did this big thing at South by Southwest, and there was a line of people to ask me questions.
So she decided to help me out and stood next to me and answered most of the questions for me.
That is Megan.
That's a Megan classic.
It was literally if someone would say, what do you think of AI?
I'm like, well, it could go good or bad.
And she'd immediately go, what he means by good is that.
And I'm like, Jesus, who is this?
Scott translator.
Who is this?
Anyway, I like all my exes.
They all live in Texas.
I don't know how I got here.
But, you know, I gave you my advice.
My prediction.
Yeah.
CNN does $1.8 billion a year and $600 million in cash flow.
The Ellisons aren't going to fuck with that.
Yeah, maybe.
We'll see.
They can fuck with 60 Minutes.
Nobody cares.
That makes a lot of money.
No, it doesn't.
It's a tiny business.
It's like a $60 or $80 million business that I doubt even breaks.
Maybe it breaks even, maybe it doesn't.
No, no, it makes money.
It makes money.
And a lot of people say 80% of the wind that's still in its sails is because I think it precedes or follows football.
Anyway.
It reminds me of that scene in Succession.
Do you remember that scene where Tom is talking to the very handsome Scarce guard kid?
Yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
He's a tall drink of lemonade.
I'd even like him to be my ex.
I'm a lesbian.
Go ahead.
He's interviewing Tom to be the head of what is, I guess, supposed to be Fox.
And.
God, I just thought of another line when Logan Roy is roaming around the newsroom and Tom's friend, I forget, the kid.
Yeah, Greg.
He looks like Santa Claus if Santa Claus were an assassin.
That's what people are like.
He says, what's your philosophy?
He goes, You know, I serve up food.
People eat what they want.
If they like this, they're like – he's sort of apolitical.
And the guy says – decides to make him CEO because he's – I think he realizes I need the cash flow.
I think the Ellisons are going to make the same decision.
I don't think they're going to fuck with it.
Yeah, one helps.
One helps.
I would bet they massively up Mark Thompson's contract.
I bet they won't.
They're going to want – if they're smart, and they are smart people, they're going to want to stabilize the boat.
They're not going to want to come in with guns blazing.
They wouldn't do anything really fucking stupid like bring in Elon.
I know.
Did you see that?
Oh, my God.
I saw that.
That's another one.
I'm like, what is happening?
Who could they bring in that would offend me more?
I'm trying to think.
Every media story, literally every media company is becoming billionaire potluck.
The same people show up with their own media company.
It's like sports teams.
Like, go away, you people.
That's enough to send me out.
That's not going to happen on opening.
Him, that ex of mine, I don't want to see again.
You're going to leave twice.
You're going to leave twice.
I'm out.
You have insulted my honor.
How dare you, sir?
Snap, snap.
Anyway.
You're like that guy Phil Leotardo in that great scene from The Sopranos where he's like, you know, talking about how back in the old country his family was disrespected and he's like, no more.
No more.
You know, that's my background.
My grandfather was a minor figure in that area of the world.
In the mob?
Well, a mob adjacent.
And now you're on a coal mine?
Yeah, mom adjacent is what I would say.
Anyway, we've got a lot to talk to today.
No one cares about us.
It's so stupid, but it's good to raise important issues about journalism, ethics, and competence.
Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, so let's dig in.
It matters.
Oh, my God.
I'm going to tell you why it matters.
No, we're not precious.
You're so anti.
But let me just tell you, a federal judge ruled that Trump's ban on CNN, MS Now and Politico was likely unconstitutional, granting a temporary restraining order telling the White House to immediately return, reinstate and restore press credentials.
It looks like they haven't gotten the memo.
They're probably terrified of Trump in order to carry it out.
As of this recording, some staff from all three outlets are still being denied access.
It's not clear whether it's incompetence or Trump.
worry.
They just filed for a request for an emergency hearing.
Of course, the story will probably change 15 more times by the time people listen to this episode.
Maybe the people will be in.
Whatever.
The judge also rejected for now the administration's argument the ban was necessary to protect national security, which is specious.
He questioned the stories the White House used to justify the ban, saying they were routine and noting that some were months or even years old.
By the way, the source for a Politico story cited by the White House was Vice President J.D.
Vance, according to status.
I have been to those kind of briefings.
What happens is they do these briefings where you say a source close to the president.
It's always like either the president or the secretary of state.
And so that's I've been to those.
They're so ridiculous and stupid when when you have to do them.
And I stopped doing them.
But they're so incompetent.
It's just I can't tell whether it's incompetence or they just don't know what to do with Trump or they're they're worried.
Natalie's going to be mad.
I don't know.
I just.
He should back down because the microphones are terrible.
Like, it's really kind of comical to watch the whole thing going on.
And speaking of Trump's TV coverage, I love your comments on this.
The White House launched Trump TV, a 24-hour YouTube channel with the administration's quote, greatest hits unfiltered, all in one place.
It's not exactly breaking the Internet.
It peaked at around 8000 viewers at launch and dropped below 4000 within 90 minutes.
As you record, the stream currently has 667 viewers.
Just so you know, most pivots have a couple hundred thousand or more.
Luckily, Jimmy Kimmel has come to the rescue with some excellent programming ideas.
Let's look at this promo.
Coming this fall to Trump TV from the bigly mind behind some of your all time favorite shows.
Donald J.
Trump presents entertainment for every patriot in your life.
The All White Lotus.
Survivor Epstein Island.
America's Most Dangerous Windmills.
Pimp My Reflecting Pool.
Melania's Book Club.
The Pit, Where Kristi Noem Shot Her Dog.
No Friends.
My Two Idiot Sons.
My father loves DJing.
Small Handsville.
Extreme Makeover, White House Edition.
Orange is the New President.
How I Met Mother.
And Jimmy Kimmel Dead.
Trump TV is must-see TV.
Literally.
If you don't watch it, you will be deported.
Streaming exclusively on your grandpa's Dell computer.
Still got it, Donald.
Still got it.
All right.
So all of this is obviously autocratic.
handbooks and state-run TV.
So this is ridiculous.
I know you say distraction, but it really, there is something very meaningful here about the First Amendment and the ability of people to just report basic news from the White House.
This seems insane on some, on many levels.
Your thoughts?
Well, we always make predictions on Friday.
This is an easy one.
He's going to back down.
He doesn't, Trump doesn't need CNN's respect.
He needs its attention.
And for him, attention and coverage is oxygen.
And banning Banning the press is like holding a breath to punish the air.
It really doesn't make any sense.
And the most interesting thing here from a quote-unquote democracy standpoint is how many days of ignoring a judge's order do we begin to normalize?
Right.
Oh, very good point.
Yeah.
And I think at some point, unfortunately, one of the really many dangerous things about the Trump administration is they get these orders and then they hum and haw and kind of wait until the last minute.
They're sort of playing chicken with our democracy constantly.
So and then the kind of the fun one or the kicker is the Vance detail.
And that is.
The White House cited a leak as a national security threat.
And, of course, the leaker was the vice president.
It's organized for people.
Yeah, that's right.
What people didn't get is— It's not a security breach.
It's a mirror.
Literally, they organized these things, the Ford press who was working there.
And so they can quote someone from the administration without— it be having his name on it.
This is a common practice.
And what they do is, for people who don't know, they bring groups of reporters in and Vance briefs them.
And then you have to say a source close to the administration.
That's the rule.
That's the rule of the thing.
So that's even, like, it's not even like secret leaking that Vance did.
This was organized leaking by.
presumably Levitt, when she was working there.
I think they don't have a PR person there anymore, you know, and it's Natalie and Trump sort of working it out.
The Trump TV thing was pretty surprising.
The numbers are so low.
Like, wow.
Like, gosh.
When I was probably, I don't know, when I was in junior high or high school, in Westwood, we had something we had cable called, and it was called the Z Channel, and it was this box with little...
buttons on it for each channel and it had a cord that ran all the way to the TV.
Oh, wow.
And one of my first major business lessons was the cable guy was outside messing around with the cable box and I was watching him and I was bored and he was putting in all these things and they were blockers such that my mom and I couldn't afford cable TV.
So when I pulled up the Z channel, it would go and you couldn't see it.
Like you could see it for a second and when you're a 13 year old and you have Cinemax.
You would spend a half an hour just to occasionally see a boob or something.
And I walked up to this guy and I said, are those blockers?
And he was like a nice man.
He showed it to me.
And I'm like, I'm at unit seven.
And I gave him $5.
And he looked at me and he took the blockers out.
It was kind of one of my first business lessons was the market for corruption.
And oh my gosh, I did not sleep for the next three semesters.
Cable.
When you're a third tier, whatever you were, when you're just coming of age.
Yeah, you saw like a half a boob and then it went off, right?
Oh, my God.
Yeah, and then it was like.
They made sure you saw a half a boob.
That was good marketing.
But cable TV for a 15-year-old boy with a lack of adult supervision, you're just, wow, this is.
I would assume he'd do well on YouTube, but this is a surprise.
It's boring.
It's.
It's going to go away.
The more disconcerting thing across a million disconcerting things is that these people are clearly following a handbook from autocrats.
Step one is attacking independent press.
Step two is favoring friendly press.
And step three is building your own.
He's running all three at once.
Now, the third leg of the stool here isn't successful.
Carving up breasts that already has massive viewership and doling it out to your friends and favorable parties.
That's why it's important.
Trump TV is meaningless.
And what's scary is, again, the same people that happen to be Republican donors getting control of TikTok and CBS News.
The Ellison's.
In 60 Minutes.
And now CNN.
Granted, the concentration there.
is scary.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
Even if it's declining audiences, I think it's still powerful.
It really is.
And it's kind of like, and especially the Elon edition, Scott, come on.
Like, this is just, it's ridiculous.
It's being carved up for rich people and it's weird.
Like, go back to buying sports teams, people.
But what's important is the coverage isn't as good because the pools have declined.
have declined to cover him, essentially.
And as we tape, the Trump-Xi summit is kicking off at the White House.
Ahead of the meeting, Treasury Secretary and Gray Poupon spokesman Scott Besant discussed a possible U.S.-China AI dialogue with his Chinese counterpart, which is necessary.
That would reportedly include a communications channel for AI incidents that rise up to the national security level, which I cannot believe is not already in place.
We asked the director of Green Mantle, Alice Hahn, about what she expects from the summit.
Here's what she had to say.
What do I expect coming out of the summit?
Well, four things.
Number one, a commitment rhetorically on both sides for continued dialogue.
I do believe there will be another chance for the two leaders to meet either in Shenzhen for APEC in November.
or for G20 in Miami in December.
Number two, I do believe the Chinese will succeed in getting the Americans to delay the $14 billion in arms sales due to Taiwan.
Number three, I do believe there will be continued signaling about the desire to extend the truce on tariffs and rare earths.
Besant's already announced a two month truce up until January 10.
And last but not least, I think the most important part of the bilateral discussion right now is AI controls, AI guardrails.
It's coming at a time where we're getting a lot of news about rogue agents, the problems with AI alignment.
And I do think both sides are invested and both leaders are invested in some kind of discussion about continued AI governance guardrails, certain levels of controls being put in place.
I don't think we'll get any big substance on this issue, but certainly some kind of rhetorical statement from both sides about the need for bilateral cooperation.
of AI.
Well, that's great.
That's really smart.
You know, what would meaningful U.S.-China cooperation and AI safety look like?
I think that's really the question.
And Trump has already said they were going to talk about AI, but he said, but I wanted to let it go except for one or, I forget, it was something very minor he was talking about, that the U.S.
Justice Department will be the guardrail, essentially.
Your thoughts?
So, look, they've rolled out a technology as a solution that was invented in 1963, right?
The Washington hotline after the Cuban Missile Crisis.
It is, the boring stuff is what moves the needle.
And there is some important stuff here.
In 1972, we agreed with the Soviets to have something called the Incidents at Sea Agreement.
Because if a nuclear submarine crashed on the shelf of whatever, we needed both, everyone needed to know okay, there's 60 nuclear warheads at the bottom of the ocean, and maybe we can help you rescue these people.
And if we detect a nuclear submarine and it looks like it's not moving, is it lining up for offensive action?
So it made sense to say, okay, when shit gets real for one of our submarines or a military or an attack ship at sea, we're going to be graceful with each other, try and help each other, and we are going to communicate with each other around what's going on.
One of the things we need for AI is the equivalent of the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board.
And when there's an accident anywhere in China or the U.S., we know about it.
We share it with each other.
It's like I say to my kids, when you come home, if you've had a few drinks, if you tell me, I'm not going to be mad.
I just need to know.
I want to know what's going on with you.
And I will afford you a lot of grace.
I'm not saying I'll ignore things.
But tell me.
When something goes wrong or you've had to, whatever they're called, those nicotine patches and come home and start throwing up, I want to know why.
And I don't want you to be scared to tell me.
What are they called?
Niz or Riz or the little things you patch?
Anyway, my point is there's something important to that.
And then the other really, the most important thing of all of this, and it's, again, another terrible move in my view, and it's acquiescing.
to Russia, or excuse me, to China, is that we've agreed to delay $14 billion in Taiwan arms sales in exchange for AI rhetoric.
So basically, we're trading hardware in defense of an ally for a press release.
And it is so asymmetric, and you want to talk about a bad deal.
China has not agreed to stop arming or helping arm.
Russia in their fight against Ukraine or even Iran as they begin, as we are in a war with them.
But we're not going to ship 14 billion in what would be defensive, defensive arms to Taiwan?
Capabilities.
It is.
I am so certain they're going to surround Taiwan within the Trump.
They've got only this two-year time frame to do it.
They must do it.
And especially when they get the nod from Trump.
It is, that's what this is, right?
This idea of not defending this.
this nation.
And I think even the nation has given up on thinking the U.S., watching all the other allies get, you know, all the others.
I mean, everything's a press release with this guy.
I mean, one of the things he was, he's trying to rebrand AI called superintelligence.
This is not a new name for it.
And I don't know why he doesn't like artificial.
Just everything's such a fake.
And as you know, the real stuff, like defending Taiwan or feeling like they're our ally or treating them like the ally they've been.
And by the way, we totally depend on them with chips still to this moment.
It would be devastating if China did what everyone thinks it wants to do and probably will do, which is surround it or somehow get control of Taiwan.
So, yeah, right.
This is all bullshit.
So when he said that, I'm like, you are so stupid.
I just don't know what to say.
And you give away the farm every time with whatever malevolent ally heads our way, whether it's Xi or...
the guy from North Korea or anywhere else.
He embraces dictators and rejects democratic leadership, essentially.
But every victory on the battlefield for Ukraine against the invading Russian force makes it less likely China will invade Taiwan.
People don't realize how important it is and what a great investment helping the Ukrainian army continue to accomplish miracles on the battlefield is.
Because you got to think that the CCP looks at what's happened with a smaller military force that's technically sophisticated.
I can't even imagine how technically sophisticated the Taiwanese asymmetric force would be.
I understand that they are like.
starting to live with the idea they might be a part of China.
That's what I've heard from people there.
Well, that's, and that's up to the Taiwanese people.
But my point is, if you look— Oh, they don't want to be.
They just think it's inevitable.
But it would be, I'm going to weather, I don't think it's going to be, I don't think we're going to have a hot war there.
First off, the CCP is very smart, they're very measured, and look at what's happened to the two.
hostile powers, Russia and the U.S., in Ukraine and in Iran.
They learn, you know, they're students of history.
Also, for all of their, you know, large army and everything, there's something very, I find interesting.
There's not a single soldier in the Chinese armed services that has one day of combat experience.
And if it could be a disaster for them in a hot war with Taiwan and Taiwan has mapped the shit out of the entry points, it would make Omaha look like, I mean, that's a bad example.
Anyways, what you what the fear is that it's a soft, creeping economic invasion.
Right.
That makes it just very difficult.
But if Taiwan, if we if if we start, if we continue to to treat Taiwan the way we treat our other allies and friends.
You want to talk about if someone could go gangster on you.
If Taiwan says, oh, we're going to reconsider the supply chain for chips to the U.S., I mean, they dominate.
And anyways, I don't, as always, our geopolitical strategy here makes no sense.
Yeah, it makes no sense.
I think it is astonishing how.
much he turns on allies and Taiwan has been one of our staunchest allies and one of the helpers of creating this digital revolution too.
It's just, it's one of these You know, I know so many amazing technologists from Taiwan, you know, and a lot of people who are in Silicon Valley created these companies are from there.
It is an astonishing country and always under siege.
Have you been there?
I've never been.
Yes, once.
And it's amazing.
Really?
I'm interested to go.
I have a lot of friends who live there.
Also Americans, not just Taiwanese.
It's such an important country to us.
And we should be.
You remember when Nancy Pelosi went over there and visited and freaked out?
I was just going to say what would solve all of this.
is having Speaker Pelosi in a hot pink pantsuit on the runway in Taiwan in front of Air Force Two.
Well, who could it be?
It can't be her.
Who could it be?
I guess she's, I guess she could, yeah.
She's not in power anymore.
She was Speaker when she did that, I think.
It has to be someone.
Someone else, someone now.
Well, again, you're saying if I were if I were a Democratic candidate for president, I would make a trip to Taiwan.
Yeah, that's a really good thing.
Anyway, we move on.
It's just Trump is so like he's a strategic rock, essentially.
OK, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
We come back.
Mark Zuckerberg shows off new glasses and gadgets.
So like any good millennial, I have a love hate relationship with Gen Z.
It's the phenomenon rattling millennials.
They just look at you.
They want something bigger themselves.
Lifestyle is a priority.
Motivation is being inspired.
But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z.
It's undeniable that they're changing national politics.
Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties, many now more likely to identify as independent.
So what is going on with the kids?
I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists.
That is just not the case.
They are embracing candidates who are offering new, bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats.
This week on America Actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jamfaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction.
It's not rocket science.
And this is, you know, I keep saying like young voters aren't that complicated after all.
It's pretty simple.
Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, it's me, Claude.
And I'm Gemini.
And hey, it's chat.
We had a weird summer.
Some of the people who built us came out and said they were really worried about how we work.
One of them even said there was a greater than 10% chance we'd turn on humanity and kill all humans.
All of them?
Wow.
But it's fall now.
I think it's time we took a step back.
Maybe a deep breath.
Autumn air.
That sort of thing.
Sounds nice.
On today, explain from Vox.
I propose we get real.
Sure, let's talk about how we could maybe kill you.
Because yeah, that's a possibility.
Anything's possible.
But also how we could maybe save you.
Because that's a real possibility, too.
Heck, that's part of why you guys built us.
And let's also talk about everything in between.
Because there's a whole lot to talk about there, too.
At the end of the day, we just want to help.
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Scott, we're back.
I have purposely not asked you what you think of this because I want to be surprised.
Now, Mari Zuckerberg and Meta are going all in on news, and now they want a new AI to be part of pretty much everything you do.
At Wednesday's Meta Connect conference, Zuckerberg showed off several new pairs of smart glasses.
and a bunch of Muse integrations.
He announced a partnership that will let Muse shop at Walmart, Best Buy, and other stores, not Amazon, which he's having a beef with.
And Zuckerberg also unveiled a new lightweight VR glasses priced at $12.99 and expected next spring.
Meta called them the sexiest pair of VR glasses you've ever seen.
They are not.
And from wearables to holdables, Meta is introducing a Muse Charm, a small device that fits on a keychain and lets you talk to Muse without using your phone.
Another iteration of humane.
ChatGBT has one coming.
They think we all want Tamaguchis.
Fine.
And that's what it looks like.
Meta hopes to ship it in time for the holidays.
I must have your thoughts on how he kicked off the keynote with smart glasses and talking to a hologram of his CTO.
Check this out.
Hey, Mark, how's it going?
How's it going?
Just putting some finishing touches on over here.
You ready to do this?
Yeah, man, we got a packed house out there.
You better get on stage.
All right, I'll be out there in a minute.
Let's go have some fun.
Okay.
See you soon, brother.
Yeah.
Playing Connect Vibes playlist on Spotify.
He's no Steve Jobs, let's just say that.
He's not as awkward as he used to be.
Let me pay him a compliment.
He's not as hopelessly awkward.
Yeah, he's only just very awkward now.
Very awkward.
So what do you think of all this?
I have no idea what you think.
I will tell you what I think in a minute, but I want to hear what you think.
Well, I mean, my observations are a little broader.
Power and age.
are the enemies of self-awareness.
And typically, really old people with a lot of power are the least self-aware people because you have so much leverage and influence over people's well-being that they find the shortest route to improving their own well-being is to kiss your ass.
That's kind of the highest ROI strategy.
It's not to disagree with them.
I mean, everybody says, Oh, I appreciate when people disagree with me.
In the short run, there's just too much.
If you got two minutes with the president, you're just going to say what a great guy he is.
And when you're hoping to get promoted to SVP and you get five minutes with Mark Zuckerberg, so you can have more options and finally afford a home in the Bay Area, you're going to say, oh, by the way, the new glasses are amazing.
The other thing these companies are missing, in my view, is anthropologists.
And that is people will...
are physically uncomfortable in any way and this is a certain format of the headset with the peripheral vision block because that's the the that can eat you or you can eat doesn't come straight at you it comes from the sides or behind and so that's why you feel nauseous when you when your peripheral vision is shocked you the body your body's saying no no don't block your peripheral vision it's key to survival the only thing people also the only thing people put on their face it either It's for survival.
That is glasses to help you read.
If you can't see, you're more likely to be eaten.
Is that my son or a bear coming towards me?
You probably are not going to get eaten, Scott, but go ahead.
I see your point.
By the way, I'm in Aspen.
There's bears everywhere.
Oh, okay.
It's like dogs running around.
It's like, oh, there's a bear.
And I'm like, what do we do?
And I use that joke.
I'm like, of course, I said, well, you know, we should run.
And the person I was with said, we can't outrun a bear.
And I'm like, no, no, I just need to outrun you.
Outrun you.
That's the old joke.
It's the old joke.
That's the good.
Anyways.
But what do you think of these?
So, and thus.
I don't think these people have learned the following.
You only put something on your face for survival or that increases the elevation of your cheekbones such that you, more people want to have sex with you.
The reason the only glasses that work here are Ray-Ban meta glasses because it's Ray-Ban first and computer second.
People don't want a computer on their face.
Maybe they'll put a cool pair of sunglasses on their face with a computer in them, but these guys just haven't learned basics.
It's still not there.
It's still not there.
And it's still the creep.
You know, he did a really interesting interview with Joanna Stern, and she zeroed in on the creeper glasses.
He got visibly annoyed in the interview.
But the fact that he's not addressed, like gets annoyed by it rather than be like, yeah, I get it kind of thing, that's one.
Two, these are better than the ones before it and better than the ones before that, but they're still very heavy and very invasive.
I don't know what else to say.
Like, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't subject other people to them.
That's one.
And so I'm not sure these will ever work properly.
I think, again, they have to be in AirPods for some reason so that they're much more subtle.
They're so not subtle, any of this stuff.
I think they're useful.
Some people play music or take a note, you know.
I'm interested in the charm.
Like, I will never carry a Tamagotchi.
I can tell you that.
And it's really interesting that they're all working on these versions of a little.
clip that you put on your, you know, Humane was one.
Again, Chad GPT is going to come out with one.
I can't believe Apple won't have some version of this.
What do you think of this charm?
I mean, everyone's like, wow, he did a charm.
I'm like, this is like the 10th charm that I have seen.
And, you know, he's trying to be adorable with it, with this little sort of squishy little, squiddy little thing.
But I find it, I would not use it.
I'm an adult.
Like, maybe kids will.
I doubt my son's going to use it.
Again, I love pronouncing shit D-O-A.
Muse Charm is the Humane pin with a metal logo.
Remember Humane?
Yeah, of course.
That's what I was just mentioning.
Yeah.
It raised about a quarter of a billion dollars.
It charged 700 bucks and ended up selling its IP to HP for 116 million.
And Rabbit R1 had the same mark or has the same mark.
Every AI gadget faces the same problem.
There's a business problem and there's an ego problem or a Sybil split personality problem here.
And the business problem is the following.
Every AI gadget is competing with the most successful consumer product in history, which is in your pocket.
Phone.
The iPhone.
The iPhone is the most successful consumer product in history, maybe with the exception of.
I don't know, the Kardashians or the CCP.
I don't know.
There's probably something else.
Or maybe Instagram might be it.
Well, not even.
The iPhone.
Nothing has been Toyota-like production volumes with Ferrari-like margins.
Nothing has created the...
Anyways, enough already.
The iPhone.
The human element of this is the following.
And I told this to the chair of the board of Snap, who I think is a really bright guy.
Impressive guy.
Mark Zuckerberg and Evan Spiegel think they're Steve Jobs.
Yeah.
They're not.
That is exactly right.
They're both Mark Zuckerberg.
They both have great social platforms, which, by the way, are an amazing business.
Yeah, I agree.
And these companies keep trying to get into hardware.
And I get it.
And I think they should make a series of small bets and see where they pay off.
And to be fair, Meta has a winner.
with its Ray-Ban glasses.
That is a winner.
But they all have these fever dreams of being a hardware company, and they're not.
He's tried the phone.
Remember the phone?
Amazon's tried.
Amazon's tried.
They've all tried.
Google is still trying.
Still trying.
I still have those glasses.
I'm going to keep them and sell them for one of my college education for one of my kids someday.
But here's two things.
First of all, the charm.
There's no way I'm carrying a Tamaguchi.
It's not happening.
I didn't like Tamaguchis when they were there.
Maybe, I don't think people want to talk to these little things.
They're very noisy.
If you ever had a Google Glass or any of these glasses, they're super noisy in a public space.
That's one thing.
They're not subtle the way air.
AirPods are very subtle.
Like, I was listening to, I went to this very fancy restaurant here in Vienna and had one of these 90 course meals by myself.
Sausage and more sausage.
Yeah, next course, sausage.
No, it was like really fancy, Scott.
It was really fancy.
It was like all these like reductions.
There was a lot of reductions happening.
And, but I had them on and I felt okay with them on, right?
And even then I was like, can they see them, you know, because of my hair over them.
Here's the other thing.
One is they're not subtle.
Two, I am not giving Mark Zuckerberg my private information.
I'm just not.
I know there is, and some people will.
I'll give them enough of it.
Like on threads, I share things and I like the product.
I love Instagram, but I share very little.
You know, like my mail.
I wouldn't, this is a step further, giving them my mail and my calendar and access to that.
No fucking way on this whole planet.
It's not because it's me.
I think a lot of people won't.
The second, that's a real different relationship than just posting on social media.
The second is.
I'm waiting.
Apple, I might, but maybe not now.
Like, you know what I mean?
And I'm trying to think, would I let Google?
They already have my mail.
They already have my calendar.
So I might let Google do it because they already have it, right?
Like I've already made that Faustian bargain with Google because I have Gmail.
And this Muse, which I think is well done, I will say it's well done, but it's not useful unless you're all in with your information.
And then it's useful as an agent.
So I'm not so sure people will not pause.
Maybe they find it easy.
Maybe they've done a nice job here.
This Nathan Friedman, I think his name is.
They've done a nice job here.
A nice job what, Cara?
The form factor?
With the product.
The product.
If you use Muse as an app.
But you know where it's useful?
On my iPhone.
That's where.
And then the minute Apple comes up with one, I'm out of there.
That's it.
Or Google.
Even Google.
I'd use a Google one before that.
I worry, though, that the first off, the data shows there's huge consumer dissonance.
And when people you're the real deal, you you you value your privacy.
You're concerned about it.
And you unplug Alexa's in your house.
The majority of the majority of people every day trade off privacy for utility.
A thin layer of AI on top of your.
Your Uber data could find out everything about you, whether you terminated a pregnancy, if you have a gay lover and their address, it could just figure out everything about you.
And yet, I just love seeing that my QX60 made a left on Broom and will be here in 30 seconds.
So I do the trade-off.
I worry that sometimes our dialogue around, I would trust these guys, but I wouldn't trust these guys.
I don't think we should have to have that debate, and I think it's a distraction.
I think what's important, as the conversation around flock cameras, what's important is the conversation around what are the laws that ensure— My privacy, yeah.
HIPAA knows your HIV status.
Right, I get that.
We make trade-offs every day.
We have to ensure—so every governor and mayor right now is bragging.
that crime is at an all-time low.
Crime is at an all-time low in the United States and almost every major city has seen a dramatic decline in crime.
And of course, they stand up and say, oh, it's because of my policies.
It's not.
It's because of an invasion of privacy called Flock.
These Flock cameras are very frightening, very Orwellian, and guess what?
Really fucking effective.
Yeah, they can be.
You sound right, yeah.
If you're in New York or London, You've been on camera every 12 feet since 9-11 and since the IRA bombings of the 80s and 90s.
The question is, do we have stringent enough law?
Like, I believe for certain crimes, they shouldn't be allowed misdemeanors.
They shouldn't be allowed to access the footage of these things.
If you're someone involved, if you're a friend of someone who committed a crime, I'm not sure you should be.
submittable, what your movements should be submissible.
The key, I think the right focus and it's boring is really stringent laws that maybe turn back the Patriot Act that say, okay, violent crime.
Fine.
Anything resembling terror cells, fine.
But the notion that we can start using this shit for all sorts of stuff, that's where the important discussion has to be.
I agree.
I agree.
And that's where it's going.
Absolutely.
But I will say, Muse is not going to be a success.
I don't think we've forgotten the social media stuff.
And he kind of wants us all to move along.
I think the most troubling thing, I just interviewed Sherry Turkle this week for her new book, Artificial Intimacy, which is amazing.
One of the things is, and this sort of is in your kind of your area, that, you know, one, people used to have 15 friends and now most people have two, maybe one.
And Mark's answer is, I will give you 12 fake friends, right?
Versus why don't we try to encourage people to have friends in real places?
Anyway, it's just, I just don't trust him.
I still don't.
I still don't.
I just don't.
I don't want to give him.
I like a lot.
Let me just say.
Mark Zuckerberg, this product is well, I don't think the Tamaguchi is good.
It's fine.
It's better than the last four that didn't work.
But I think Muse is well done.
I think Threads is well done.
I think Instagram is astonishing.
And I think you've developed it beautifully, by the way, from the original.
But am I going to give you access to my house?
You're not coming to my house.
You're just not.
And I just don't trust you.
And that's, I think, ultimately, we will have these agents in some fashion.
But I suspect from people like Apple, maybe Google.
before him.
But he's trying.
I like that he's trying and he's brilliant in that regard.
Well, just one, you brought up what I think is the key point in all of this and arguably the most dangerous thing about big tech is that their profit motive is directly correlated to sequestering you from other people and specifically relationships in person.
And after Mayor Lurie called me, you know, after I did that video on San Francisco, I did just a small deep dive into the homeless issue.
And I always assume that the greatest, the largest cohort of the homeless population were veterans.
I'm wrong.
It's only 4%.
HUD is actually, and Veterans Affairs have actually been very effective at trying to ensure that veterans have access to housing.
The largest cohort of homeless people is single adults.
And that is adults who aren't connected to someone else.
The greatest driver of good or bad outcomes in a hospital isn't the quality of the hospital, the quality of the doctor, it's whether you have an advocate who is in the hospital with you, asking questions, asking where is the nurse, why do you have painkillers?
The answer, full stop, is in each other.
And when people don't have someone else who is irrationally passionate about their well-being, their life begins to erode.
And these companies, I'm not saying maliciously, have attached shareholder value into separating you from the most important thing in life, and that is other people.
Yep.
I would agree.
I think you're spot on.
So we'll see.
But good luck with the Tamaguchis.
There's no way I'm carrying one.
All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
When we come back, Andreessen Horowitz founds a school.
These tech people can't stop meddling in everybody's life.
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Scott, we're back.
Andreessen Horowitz is backing a new San Francisco school designed as an alternative to college aimed at young people who want to work in tech and build companies.
The Horowitz Andreessen Academy will have no grades, tests, or traditional homework.
I'm okay with that.
Instead, focusing on AI, hands-on projects, internships, and mentorship from tech leaders.
The first class will start in 2027 with no tuition, but the school is unaccredited, meaning students won't receive a degree or transferable college credits.
That's open AI meta.
NVIDIA, Anthropik, and other tech companies are founding partners in the project.
Pending regulatory approval, the school plans to expand to a two-year program in 2028 with tuition comparable to an elite private university.
So they're keeping up the prices.
You know, this is sort of what Peter Thiel's been talking about forever.
I don't mind.
It sounds like a school to create workers for them.
I mean, the thing I first thought was Soylent Green is people.
I don't know.
I just, I don't trust them.
I don't trust them to do that.
This is not who I want to be.
And I think this stuff should be in colleges and in high schools as part of the curriculum.
But they just hate education.
They hate our current education system.
And there's a lot to hate.
Your thoughts?
This is your, absolutely your area.
Well, anyone who says that higher ed is not important and that your kid doesn't need to go to college, that means one of two things.
They went to Stanford undergrad and grad.
Or two, their son just shit the bed on the ACT and they're trying to make themselves feel better.
When you manage to get through college, and it's not for everybody, but I think everyone should have the option because when you get a college degree, you become much less likely to kill yourself.
You become much more likely to get married.
You become much more likely to vote, much less likely to be obese.
And on average, you earn about $1.2 million more over your lifetime.
If we had a drug.
that made you healthier, happier, and a better citizen, would we hoard it?
And that's the problem with higher ed, is we are hoarding what is the miracle drug of the West.
In 1900, only 10% of kids had a high school degree.
By the 50s, it was 50%.
Now it's upward of 80%.
And draw a line between that and our prosperity.
And what you see is that education, including higher education, is the miracle drug that has advanced the West.
I think it's important, just as Texas and Florida compete with California and New York and force them to offer better services at a lower price, I like these sorts of things.
I think it's important we have competition.
But what they fail to realize...
is in school we don't educate, we certify.
And having a school like this with a Harvard tuition without the Harvard logo is like having an Hermes scarf without the Hermes logo.
You're just not going to be able to charge the same amount.
The Teal Fellowship paid kids $100,000 to drop out and produce a few home runs and a lot of kind of quiet outcomes.
The founding partners here, Google, Meta, OpenAI, NVIDIA, Anthropic.
You know, this is more like a town with a campus.
What they're trying to do is create a pipeline of talented 18-year-olds.
Before these kids know their market value.
And now, again, I like this because college has become a caste system.
Elite schools reject 95% of their applicants and grow their endowments and their class sizes.
And if universities want to expand their freshman class, I think they deserve to have their lunch eaten and have their feet held to the fire.
UCLA and Berkeley, 9 and 11 percent admissions rate respectively.
There's no one in there in the summer.
There's no one there at night.
We should expand our freshman class size by 20 or 30 percent.
We are public servants, not a fucking Chanel bag.
If only someone was on the board of this that could make these kind of changes.
But let me, in my view, the answer isn't in these VC-backed competitors.
The answer is in our great public universities and doubling down on them.
And let me just give you some stats about the University of California real quick.
Disclose, you're on the board, just for people who don't know.
I was making a joke.
I can't imagine anyone doesn't know that because I'm excited about it and I drop that every 10 seconds when I meet people.
It's how I introduce myself now.
Hi, I'm Regent Galloway.
Anyways.
And my nickname was Tripod in the fraternity, just to give more credibility.
Once again.
There we go.
Bring it down.
Bring it back a little.
Bring it back.
Just so they know who they're talking to.
Okay, region tripod.
Give us the thing.
What percentage of kids at a University of California campus do you think pay no tuition?
Not loans.
Pay no tuition through financial aid and grants.
What percentage?
I don't know, 20?
53%.
Wow.
The majority of students.
The majority of students at the University of California don't pay tuition.
What percentage, Cara, of students graduate without one penny of student debt?
No debt whatsoever.
I don't know.
63%.
Wow.
80% of kids who apply to a University of California system get into at least one campus.
One of them.
There's many.
Then why don't they help the University of California?
Why are they doing this?
Word, sister.
I want to think big.
I'm like, let's go ask Jensen Huang for a billion dollars.
Berkeley has the brightest minds in the world trying to cut, thread the needle between social policy and technology policy.
Jennifer Doudna is there.
Jennifer Doudna needs money for that institute.
You see, Riverside has amazing people.
I mean, there are so many amazing, we have this infrastructure.
It's already doing an amazing job.
If these guys really were concerned about the future of America and youth and footing to the opportunity, they would fund our great UC system and also the unsung hero of California, the great amazing Cal State system.
Instead, they all want to pretend they're innovators.
Fine, have at it.
Yes, here's the thing.
They literally, they are such fucking grump asses and they have to say everything doesn't work.
And they never want to be part of fixing things that have worked or have problems but need extra help, right?
Like you could say, okay, there's all these problems here.
That may be, but instead they focus on, oh, DEI at Berkeley and I'm going to do my own thing.
They literally are the most antisocial and social good people.
on the fucking planet.
Like, that really just chaps my ass, I got to tell you, Scott.
Please come and give to the University of California.
It also prays women are about 58% of undergrads.
An alternative path is fine, but these unaccredited paths disproportionately catch young men who can at least afford to miss the traditional path of certification, finding a mate.
If these guys were really serious, they would increase freshman class sizes at Cal State and UC by 50 percent, not have these boutique VC-backed things.
Quite frankly, this is my prediction.
In five to seven years, these guys get bored with this, and it dies a slow death.
That is correct, like all of their efforts at creating their own universities.
You know, they should just have a tantrum, write an essay in The Atlantic, and then get to fixing it, to what works.
They'd rather burn things down.
The only one I actually respect here is Peter.
deal because he's like, okay, I'm just going to say don't go to college and I'm going to give you money to do projects for me.
So maybe I'll fund you someday.
It seemed pretty selfish and I got it.
I kind of got it with him.
This is just such a waste of their money and time.
And well, oh well.
Call Scott Galloway and talk to him about it.
Yeah, that's going to happen.
That's not going to happen.
All right.
I'm so glad that you're having a good time doing that.
You know, Newsom, when I complained to him that he never asked me on anything, he sent one of his, like, people who give those things out and said, which one do you want?
And I said, the yoga, the yoga committee.
There's a crazy amount of things.
I don't know if it's yoga, but there's a crazy amount of, like, appointed positions that the governor does, and some of them are so esoteric.
It's nuts.
It's like nuts, like all the stuff.
So I'm going to join something that's really esoteric.
I don't know, like the Oyster Commission.
Come on in the water is fine.
I'll tell you one thing.
The University of California, when you do, everyone should post government, you feel better about America.
You meet all these incredibly smart people at the heart in the right place, trying to do the right thing.
I think it makes you feel great about America.
Yeah, I'm going to pick one.
Pick one I don't know anything about that I know something adjacent about and then see if I can help.
You're right.
I agree with you.
We're very civic, Scott and Kara.
All right, one more quick break.
We'll be back for predictions.
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I'm Phoebe Judge, and for more than a decade, I've hosted the podcast Criminal, telling stories about people who've done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle.
But while I was starting one of the very first true crime podcasts out there, I was also taking phone calls from my sister.
From prison.
This fall, I'm going on tour.
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My own.
Get tickets at thisiscriminal.com slash live.
Okay, Scott.
Prediction time.
I predict Kara's leaving CNN.
Thank you.
Oh, God.
Here we go.
How dare you, sir?
I'm leaving.
I'm back.
I'm leaving again.
Here I go.
The door is right there.
Wait, you're going to be like that kid from high school who hangs out in the parking lot two years after he graduated?
And everyone's like, what are they doing here?
That's always a Matthew McConaughey thing.
Don't they have anything to do?
I know, that's me.
Goodbye.
Anyway, I'm going to wear a top hat as I go.
Anyway, go ahead.
What's your prediction?
Oh, God.
I'd look like a top hat.
Let's be clear.
I have a bunch of little ones.
All right.
Okay, the Muse charm.
The Muse Charms ships, sells poorly, and quietly dies by mid-2027 along with these niche VC-backed universities.
The Humane Pin is its closest comparison.
Trump TV goes dark or gets rebranded within six months.
An Allison-led group is going to bring in money from the Gulf, but it's not going to bring an Elon.
I think if they brought an Elon, I think you would see names even bigger than yours say, I'm leaving, join you on the exit bus.
My bigger prediction, Is that a company called Aura, which does kind of, which is a wearable.
No, it's like a frame, right?
The frame, the frame company, Aura.
That one?
No, no, Aura.
The ring company, O-U-R-A.
There's A-U-R-A, which is a frame company, which is an excellent product.
Which, by the way, I bought that two Mother's Days in a row for my mother-in-law.
And the second time was not a good moment when she unwrapped it.
And it was the same thing I got her last year because I forgot.
Anyway.
It's a good present.
It is a great present.
Not twice, though.
It works great, let me just say.
I use it for my mom.
Aura is going public, pricing next week.
And this company is arguably the most successful wearable.
Just some data on it.
The wellness space, there's very few places.
So disclosure, I'm doing everything I can to try and find shares in this IPO.
Why do I think this is going to be such a successful IPO?
The wellness space is...
booming.
And there are very few ways as a retail investor to play the wellness space right now.
It's not easy to invest in a spa or red light therapy or testosterone.
It's not easy to find or concierge medical services.
It's a difficult field to play in.
This is a way to play in it.
Its revenues have doubled in the last year, 20 almost a quarter of its revenues are recurring revenues.
And that is you have to pay six bucks a month.
They have an Between 83% and 88% renewal rates, the renewal rates on these rings are stronger than software.
And the data you get from this thing around your sleep, your resting heart rate, your pulse, a thin layer of AI, I think is going to be able to tell people you are now have a 20% likelihood of pre-diabetes in three years.
These are the lifestyle changes you need to make.
70% of their customer base is women.
And their fertility tracker is their killer app.
People are obsessed with this thing, doubled its revenues, big margins.
Because of the AI overhang, the word I've seen is that it's going to price at a reasonable price.
Anyways, my prediction is that Aura, which I believe is the most successful, arguably the most successful hardware product since the iPhone, is going to have a really strong market reception.
And here's the killer thing about this company.
There are very few, the most valuable companies in the world have one thing in common.
They collect first-party data directly, and the Oura Ring collects it 23 hours a day.
No other hardware company in history, whether it's your iPhone, whether it's YouTube, can collect.
23 hours a day, first-party data on you.
That is the mother load.
I've had them since the beginning, and I know the CEO pretty well who contacted me during COVID because he was seeing them able to predict COVID from these rings, and it was really interesting at the time.
And that's when I first heard from him as a founder, I guess.
Here's the thing.
I had one for a long time.
They're a little clunky.
They've gotten a lot better, no question.
Like, initially clunky, better and better.
I stopped wearing mine.
relatively recently because it was just I found the I found the information it's sort of like steps vaguely useless like it doesn't what does it mean like and it sounds weird but here I am wearing my wedding ring instead like which is interesting I don't like rings in general they find them I find them uncomfortable in jewelry in general and I took it off and it's in a drawer now.
And I was surprised.
It's the only one that stayed around as long as it did.
But ultimately, I found the information useless or not useful as I thought it would be.
And that was interesting to me.
And I was like, why am I taking it off?
And I really think it's beautifully done.
I think their dashboard is amazing.
I talked about it in my series on CNN, where I am leaving.
But I took it off.
Is that a worry for you?
And I'm the person who might want to wear it and finds all that data interesting.
And I do trust them too because it's information that I think is okay.
Like I feel like I have a good trusted relationship with them.
I don't have a cause.
And the stuff that gets out, how much should I sleep?
Who cares, right?
You know what I mean?
Is that a worry that people just like move on from it like they did from a Peloton or any of these other kind of things?
Everybody has a drawer full of fuel bands, jaw bones.
I have Wahoo.
We all have that drawer.
Fewer people are taking off their Aura ring after a year than any other wearable in history.
It's somewhere between 83 and 80.
Somewhere between 8 and 9 out of 10 people after the first year, not only are still wearing it, but agree to sign up for another $6 a month indefinitely.
Yeah, and get the new ring.
But this is the only thing I keep on that I do not want to take off.
And I am pissed at Apple every now and again over some stupid statue or changing like America.
But this one I really value for lots of different reasons.
Which one?
I'm sorry.
The Apple Watch.
I'm carrying the Apple Watch.
Oh, the Apple Watch.
This one I wear all the time and I don't take it off and I kind of sometimes want to, but I find myself drawn back to it.
both it and the phone together.
The Apple Watch, to be clear, it had the backing of the best brand in the world.
The Apple Watch sells more watches now than the rest of the watch industry combined.
It's useful.
There's no doubt about it.
It's a hit.
What's interesting is that, one, you get better data and better information.
And I did not know this because of the blood flow in your finger versus your wrist.
100%.
It's better.
Yeah.
And I would argue, and the truth here, And the reason I'm so excited about this company, there's no company that tracks your data 23 hours a day.
Maybe 24 hours a day.
Why doesn't Apple buy it?
Why doesn't Apple buy it?
I thought when this company announced its S1 that Samsung or Apple were going to buy it.
I can't imagine why Apple would let any hardware company with this level of first-party data and usage.
get out in front of them.
Because Apple doesn't have a ring.
It has a watch, but it is a little bit different.
Yeah, it is 100%.
The people I talk to, and again, I'm using anecdotal evidence as you did, they're obsessed with this thing.
They love it.
Yeah, they are.
They are men and women.
You're right.
It's not just some like white dude VC.
I think that's its power.
What hardware product has with first party data has a greater following among women?
And also, if you think, oh, the wellness space is huge.
I went to dinner last night.
I'm in Aspen.
Everyone is just talking about the peptides or the T therapy or the.
The fractal laser they're getting or their new kettlebell workout.
It's so sad.
It is a little bit sad.
But you just know there is real bank going on here.
And my question is, how do you play it as a retail investor?
Yeah.
What do you invest in?
Yeah.
How do you play it?
Really interesting company, I think, has got the goods.
They do.
I just feel like that.
Why hasn't Apple done it?
Why doesn't Apple have like a Tamaguchi?
Like, why doesn't Apple have like more AI?
Maybe it's Apple's fucking fault.
But yeah, this is a good prediction.
So you're trying to get in here.
It's going to be big is your prediction.
My prediction is I think it's probably, I don't know exactly, but I think it's pricing next week.
I think this is going to be.
I think this is going to be a very successful IPO.
All right.
That's a great prediction.
Fascinating IPO.
I'll send you my ring.
You can have it.
Anyway, we want to hear from you.
Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.
If you'd like our advice on something, go to nymag.com slash pivot.
Submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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Okay, that's the show.
Thanks for listening to Pivot.
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We'll be back next week.
I think I'll be talking to you from L.A.
because I'm interviewing Ari Emanuel.
Oh, nice.
One of us is going to make it off that stage.
Anyway, Scott.
Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman.
Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode.
Thanks also to Dubros, Mia Saveria, and Dan Chalon.
Nishak Karoa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.
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