# AntiFund Launches $100M Growth Fund Backed by A16Z

**Podcast:** a16z Podcast
**Published:** 2026-06-22

## Transcript

We're officially announcing the hundred million dollar oversubscribed growth fund and some of the tier one names, maybe all the tier one names.
Anderle, Etch, Cognition, Saronic, Modal.
When we announced Antifund, I was like, GW, you're making a mistake.
Jake is not good.
You're ruining your career.
And we're just like...
Whatever, bro.
Like Mark and Dreesen and Chris X-Wing were some of our very, very first LPs.
When you have like the living goats of the industry being like, hey, you guys are good.
It's like, okay, let's do it.
Jake, given your career, you could have partnered with a lot of different people.
When did you guys know that you were going to be such a partner?
One way I think about it is that like, if Jake can just live his life and get a bunch of views, and someone has to light $100 million in fire to get a bunch of views, who do I want to be partners with?
I think a lot of people in this space don't know how to actually...
pull cash out.
They can have a lot of followers, but not the cash, and cash is king.
What happens when one of the internet's biggest creators teams up with a longtime Silicon Valley investor?
Jake Paul and Jeff Wu started AntiFund with a simple premise, back ambitious founders building the future.
What began as an early stage venture strategy has now expanded into a new $100 million growth fund with investments across AI.
defense, aerospace, infrastructure, and software.
In this conversation, they discuss investing, entrepreneurship, resilience, and what they look for in the founders and companies shaping the next decade.
Jake Paul and Jeff Wu join the podcast to talk about Anti-Fund's next chapter.
Jake, Jeff, we've got some big news.
Thanks for coming on the podcast today to discuss it.
We've got a growth fund.
Why don't you share the big news?
Yeah, we're officially announcing the growth fund that we've been working on.
for quite some time in some of the tier one names, a lot of the tier one names, maybe all the tier one names.
Andurl, Etch, Cognition, SpaceX, OpenAI, Anthropic, Saronic, Modal.
So yeah, the list goes on.
A lot where collaborators end.
Maybe we'll just zoom out first.
Jeff, for those who are not familiar from what you can see beyond the surface, how would you describe Jake's?
superpowers that led him to be the amazing partner for you here?
And then I'm going to ask Jake the same.
I think Jake from the outside could be like an entertainer or a professional athlete.
But I think to me, Jake's always been a constant entrepreneur, one.
And then two, I think he's really created himself as a tastemaker and a cultural leader of his generation, right?
Like all the young kids today look up and want to be an influencer.
Jake literally created the influencer term in that like job.
profile if you think about him instantiating the daily vlog.
So I think it's easy to, especially with an internet character, like you take pieces of that persona and just put that as a whole human.
But the underlying threat is I think he's a very generous, thoughtful, kind human being who is very ambitious and is going to not stop in whatever venues that he chooses to participate and compete in.
So I think if it's entertainment, media, sports.
And hopefully with venture capital, growth, equity, investing, we take that on together.
Thank you, Jeff.
Why don't you say the same for Jeff?
I'll say the same question that we'll get into both your stories.
Yeah, I think Jeff is one of the smartest people that I know just across the board.
And I think.
The work ethic and his background being so different than mine as well.
We make such a great team, you know, computer science, Stanford, but his deep, deep networks.
And we just think similarly and a lot of things.
And I think that lends itself really well to being great partners.
But yeah, he's nonstop thinking ahead and sees.
a lot of things before they come around the corner.
And he actually said no to investing in my first company when I was 18 years old and the company failed.
So he was right.
So just really great judgment, great people.
You know, this is the people business.
And so just being able to really read people and have that EQ as well as IQ is really important.
You're just making us flatter each other.
Yeah.
Eric, you're an OG, so I appreciate it.
I got to compliment you as well.
I appreciate it.
Well, I mean, speaking of OG, I remember Corey Levy many years ago said, hey, I've got this kid you've got to meet.
He's building something super interesting.
He's super talented.
And I was out of town.
I was like, ah, you know, he ended up introducing him.
We never ended up meeting.
And I remember something to reflect back.
I'm like, holy shit.
First off, Corey's incredible.
Judge of talent.
But two, it's like, you've got to take bets on the up and coming tech because you never know where they're going to end up.
Jake.
The idea that someone would become a media sort of mogul, then professional athlete, then a tech investor, that's like a pretty distinct path.
Say more about what other people can learn from how you took your path.
Was it all organic or what was sort of your strategy or how do you even retroactively make sense of your sort of multi-hyphenate career?
Yeah, it's really interesting.
I think always being like entrepreneur first and very analytical.
when things are working, double, triple, quadruple down.
And when they're not, just sweep the things under the rug.
And so that's what someone once said about A6Z.
I love that they just launch a bunch of stuff and then when it doesn't work, you just pretend it never happens.
Seriously, I've failed so many times to get to this point and made so many mistakes.
And I think it's resilience in this day and age and having a public career as well and being a public figure.
I think you have to have tons of resilience.
You have to know yourself.
You have to go through ups and downs.
But I think being an entrepreneur at heart, I always looked at everything from a business lens and always hustled and showed up every single day and knocked down every single door of opportunity and always wanted to grow my network.
I think that's been a super powerful thing that differentiates me is.
always knowing the right person at the right times to ask them for help or ask them for a favor and also doing favors for them when they need you and not charging for it.
I think people in this entertainment world are very transactional and short thinking and not professional.
They show up late.
I've always tried to be the most professional entertainer.
And so that's lended itself well.
And then when I went to box, it kind of started as this crazy thing but then it was a million pay-per-view buys 30 000 tickets sold out i had a blast doing it i was like okay content experiment for you Or did you know you were going to go all in?
No, I didn't know I was going to go all in.
But after the first one, it was like, this was absolutely massive.
I'm going to become world champion.
And that was like a pivot moment where it's like, yeah, this content stuff's cool and doing great, but I can still do content within boxing.
But this boxing match was the most viewed amateur event ever.
30,000 tickets sold.
The press conferences were getting tens of millions of views.
So I was like, clearly people love this and I love it.
And so I'm going to go all in.
And then that lends itself to now being one of the highest paid athletes on the Forbes list because of just following the numbers.
So I think being analytical as an entertainer is also important.
So you have the content, you have this massively high-grossing boxing career.
Why get into tech?
Yeah, so I think it was actually, again, just being an entrepreneur at heart, but it was actually one of my first loves was the Valley and coming out here when I was 17 with Corey and Alex Debalov, actually, and they showed me all these crazy companies and I got to meet some really smart people who were building the future and seeing like even Corey's after school setup where he had all the screens and all the...
employees were there and it was just like so different and so cool.
And that's when I fell in love with wanting to make my own startups and being a founder, but also being in the investor world and even understanding how it works and all the VC lingo and started growing my network.
And so it's really always been there since I was a kid and it's always been something that I loved.
And then when I was 23, I wanted to take a bigger bite at the Apple.
And that's when I met Jeff and the stars aligned and we just decided to go bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
And it turns out that we're actually really good at it.
So it's fun when things are working and it's fun helping shape the future of America with these companies.
And it's like a full story.
Mark Andreessen and Chris Dixon were some of our very, very first LPs.
So appreciate them for helping us put us into business and also giving us confidence.
seated almost every single emerging manager.
So when they see, hey, like when you have like the living goats of the industry being like, hey, you guys are good.
Okay, let's do it.
Yeah, I was just telling the story.
I think they were our first pitch call for the fund and I was like all nervous before and didn't even have the full pitch perfected yet.
And so, yeah, by the end of the call, they were just like, all right, yeah, we'll like, we'll invest.
And we're like, okay, great.
Perfect.
Yeah.
And when did you guys know that you were going to be such a partner?
Because, Jake, given your career, you could have partnered with a lot of different people.
And for you, it was also a risk of, hey, it wasn't as common back in the day to maybe partner with YouTubers in this way.
When did you know that you were going to be partners?
I can start.
And it's really funny because we were just spending the weekend with the all-in podcast besties and Jason Calacanis.
And I remember when we announced Anti-Fun, Jake was like, GW, you're making a mistake.
Jake is not good.
You're ruining your career.
And we're just like, whatever, bro.
And it's like a full circle moment because I joke about it now.
But one, I think like there's no beef.
It was fun to play poker with those guys.
But two, like J.
Kel, you're a podcaster.
You're trying to be what Jake invented.
You are a VC turned influencer.
And I think we will give you guys a run for money from who can be the better investor.
No, but I remember.
Shots fired.
But I remember that.
I found that Jake was very wise for 23, 24.
And what I mean by that is I think very few people have the amount of inbound requests, outbound requests for their time across so many different spectrums.
I would say that one way I compliment Jake is that he context switches so widely.
There's one moment for this paparazzi is going to events and he's like a celebrity on a red carpet and he's blinged out in influencer gear.
Next moment, he's a professional athlete training and preparing for a massive Netflix headline fight.
Next moment, he's like negotiating business deals and inside the weeds of numbers and like his metrics.
And then you pivot off to the next thing.
Then he's like filming a TikTok, right?
And I think.
In Silicon Valley, there's a lot of smart people.
And I think the context switching is pretty wide as a founder.
But to go from like go entertainment mode to like serious quantitative analytic mode, that probably is very, very impressive.
One.
And then two, I think Jake has the one word that you mentioned is that resiliency.
Like Jake has just seen a lot of shit like coming up in Hollywood.
going through the influencer phase, going through controversy, like surviving it, having haters.
Like most people do not eat that much pain.
And I think that if you think about investing or startups, it's pain tolerance.
And if you're literally fighting and punching people or getting punched in the face for a living, and then two, like the internet punching you, right, which is like the most toxic environment, like internet trolls, like hating on you.
If you can survive that, and thrive in that environment, that's presidential, like head of state level courage and resiliency.
So those two things I think is what is inspiring to me in terms of like how much can I context switch, how much pain tolerance can I have?
And hopefully that's what we can imbue with our startup founders and our portfolio companies and our co-investors, right?
Like that human quality that is very rare.
is inspiring to me and hopefully for the people that we work with.
On that note, Jake, what can people learn from you about resilience and pain tolerance?
Is it just something you've had since you were a kid?
Is it something you've learned over time?
Is it something you've, you know, just sort of like been pushed off the deep end?
Yeah, no, I think it's a little bit of all of those things.
I think I had like a very intense father.
So I think it started there.
And just being able to deal with him and...
Growing up in that environment and I think the hard work and that led me to a very public career, it all started with people actually like hating on me from day one, like in my school.
So there was never like a moment where me making the videos.
didn't have like a ton of haters.
My whole school in high school like turned against me and was like talking shit, making anonymous accounts, saying things about me.
My principal teachers were saying things.
So it's always been there.
So I think I'm just used to it because of that, which is pretty interesting.
And then you're like, what else are you going to do?
Like, I don't know.
Just be a coward and quit and give up and let people.
run you like I could just never be that person and I just don't think that way and I know who I am I think that's very important as well and I feel like a lot of people know who they are but they let the comments and critics like get to them very easily and so if you could just look yourself in the mirror and be like I'm doing good I'm a good person I'm doing good good things in the world I have a good heart I mean well and if you can mean those things then it doesn't matter what anyone says yeah when people ask you is like hey are tools like uh therapy helpful or other sort of self-care tools whether physical or emotional or mental to help deal with like what do you tell them yeah definitely i i fully believe that i think um you just have to be careful You know, you don't want the therapy to like turn into victimizing yourself and then always being in constant sad loops.
So I think you have to be careful.
And at some points, if it feels needed, yes.
But I don't think you should get like trapped into the cycle of therapy and always kind of having a call with someone or an in-person meeting with someone that is generally.
probably going to be negative.
And so I think it's very important, like who that therapist is as well.
But I do think it's important to learn about yourself and unpack things.
And I think the childhood, like trauma and going back and realizing like, oh, you know, you know, you had this that happened to you and this is maybe why you have anxiety in this moment and these things.
And so.
I really like childhood trauma work that you can connect to why you behave certain ways as an adult.
Yeah.
And I think it's important to unpack those things and learn about it.
Totally.
Jeff, why don't you also make sense of some of the, like when you're reflecting your career, looking back, you've taken some big swings in some different spaces.
When you look back at the threads that have tied your career together, how do you make sense of it?
What are some of the big insights you've had that have?
led you to go deep on certain things.
I guess like I've always been like a almost an academic or a engineer or scientist at heart.
How do you like what is the nature of reality?
What is the truth?
What are the underlying systems or rules that govern yourself, a company, a society?
Right.
So if I think about some of the things I've been interested in, whether it's biohacking, how do you optimize your your your singular person?
Actually, that's how I got to know the Andreessen family with Keaton IQ.
Chris Dixon was a seed investor.
I wanted to figure out how we could engineer better brain performance, human performance.
And then you think about at the larger scales, right?
How do you impact culture?
How do you impact society?
What is the right way to organize a company, organize a venture firm, organize a nation state, right?
That's the largest scale of optimization.
So I think there's like a tinkerer or like a student or an academic that just likes just figuring out those different systems.
And then the second part is, I think, with a little bit of battle scars and wisdom, just like fewer things that just compound really, really well.
So now I think about why venture and growth is a very interesting problem to play with is that.
managing $1 to $100 to $1 million to $1 billion is kind of the same level of hard, right?
It's like hard to spend $100 really well.
It's hard to spend $100 billion really well.
But it's, you only need like one or two people or three people to manage $100 or $100 billion, right?
Like those are the best investors are just like really, really strong conviction folks who just are making big bets.
So that's where I think we've gravitated towards.
And I think Jake has a different lens on how he can scale his thought leadership and cultural leadership and his ability to convene and bring people together at the higher and higher scales.
So I think that's like a shared level of just like shared ambition and maybe arrogance in terms of we think we can play at those highest levels of wielding capital, wielding technology, wielding culture.
If that is like the end point of just like, okay, what are the underlying rules of nature, rules of reality?
What's the most efficient way to start pulling and playing with those levers?
So I think science, computer science, physics are foundational to just the nature of reality.
And then capital is the lever of like human society and civilization.
And I think where anti-fun has been quite unique is that in a world where there's more and more capital.
Is attention more scarce?
Is being able to control mind share more scarce?
So one of the original questions, like, why is Jake like an ideal partner?
It's like, you really can't name a better partner than Jake Paul in terms of wielding attention and driving cultural taste.
So if we can really master those two lovers, maybe we can control the world, right?
Like, let's just try and have someone stop us.
Yeah.
There was a famous tweet of, if you're smart, pivot to being hot.
or, you know, if your focus on intelligence, you know, pivot to being, you know, wielding attention.
You had this blog post of, you know, there's two jobs, AI maxing and looks maxing.
Why don't you talk about that?
Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's actually true, which is that the only thing that really will matter is that if we assume that, like, we're pretty AGI-pilled, intelligence is just going to be metered out through compute.
then what matters?
Then it's like one, like your relationship with people.
And I think looks maxing is like a pretty narrow focus on like, you know, the physical appearance matters and like people like people that look good and symmetric and healthy.
So that's fine.
But I think it's beyond just looks.
It's like your vibe, your ability to just be charismatic and engage with people.
So that's like an important skill set in the future.
Can you just have better vibes than everyone else?
And I think with venture, right?
Like I think what you've done with the media strategy for Andreessen Horowitz, I mean, you guys are literally executing on looks maxing the VC world essentially, right?
Like you guys have your own propaganda arm just pushing out your view of the world.
And then the second part is that like, okay, if you don't have, maybe you're not maxing out on vibes, then you gotta just be best at wielding intelligence.
So.
All you got to do is like play with codex and be on the computer all day long.
And then on the other side, work out, sleep a lot and look smacks.
Then you got everything covered.
If you were 22, like just getting out of college today, but in 2026, what would that look like in terms of how you'd want to spend your time?
We were just stopping by Stanford and Jake's going to go back to college.
And so that might be the answer that he can actually think about.
um yeah i want to play on the stanford football team actually so we'll see what happens he's gonna do uh one year on the stanford team and they get drafted the cleveland brown it's happening let's go um i'm actually like old school in the sense that like and i think i've saw that earlier in my career where like oh is if computer science and math is automated then you don't need to study this stuff and just do like cultural or other fuzzy stuff um I would just go deeper and deeper into actually understanding math, actually understanding computer science, because if you actually know underlying how these large language models are actually working, you actually can wield them and prompt them better.
So I'm actually like doubling down that, yes, like get really good at math, get really good at computer science, right?
Like the people that are leading these industries are like math champions, right?
Like Scott Wu and all these guys are just...
hardcore at that stuff.
And, you know, we were hanging out with Scott at their office a couple months back.
So you'd get technically brilliant.
A version of AI, like, maxing is basically just max your IQ and max your EQ, right?
Like, that's another, just like a simpler way to put it.
And, like, looks maxing and A maxing are just like the more currently cultural relevant terms for it.
Would you start a company?
Would you join Anthropic or OpenAI?
You just gotta gang up with the smartest, most ambitious people possible.
And that could either be your own startup or it could be joining OpenAI.
And I think, but I think the most important thing is like team up with like-minded, ambitious people that will push you to the best version of yourself.
So if that's a company, then go, let's, and we'll, like Jake and I will back you.
If it's joining OpenAI, Cognition, some of these like really, really high growth companies so you can learn a little bit before you jump into the deep end yourself, that's also great.
But I think the most important thing is just get with really, really smart, ambitious people and team up and grow together.
I'm not technical, so I think it would be a harder place for me.
But I think I would probably try to be in VC coming out of college.
And yeah, hopefully if I made a lot of good connections at Stanford, my buddies, I would seed there.
Genius ideas.
Don't cut yourself short.
Jake was on his MacBook codexing.
Yeah, my GitHub's popping.
I was going to ask you, if you were 22 today in 2026, or 18 even, could you run the same playbook?
Or is there something about what you did on YouTube or these new platforms when you were younger that...
is like wouldn't work in the same way today and you'd have to find a new like to me to me it's obvious you know boxing you just gotta be the best in the world you gotta be the other person but in terms of what works on sort of the creator space it doesn't seem to be as an outsider as obvious and so I'm curious if the same kind of media playbook would have worked you know 10-15 years later or it's no I mean I I don't think it would I think there's very few um You know, people breaking through on the media side of things, it's a lot harder to grow, a lot harder to amass a following and to be a known brand and to rise to the top.
You know, you kind of had to be there from the start.
And that's why you really see with brands that have stuck around at the highest level in social media, it's me, Mr.
Beast and my brother.
And there's really no one else.
For people who are not as familiar, what was your insight in terms of what were you doing that was so new or that amassed such an audience so quickly?
Yeah, I think a lot of it was, I mean, I think you just have to be entertaining.
And me and my brother were doing that, posting every single day, like 15-minute videos that took the whole day to film.
So just effort, first and foremost.
The entertainment in it.
I think diversifying with like characters.
So I basically created like a daily reality show with all of these people on it and all these crazy things happening.
And that was cutting edge at the time.
And then just always being the visionary of like, what's working, what trends, you know, okay, let's make a rap song.
And then all of a sudden it's like, one of the generational anthems of this, you know, younger kids know every single word of it.
It's like, oh, the music worked.
Okay, let's make more songs.
Let's make a whole album.
Let's make a Christmas album.
So constantly just like bits of iteration, but, you know, spanning the full spectrum of entertainment.
So it was like songs, comedy.
I would make like scary videos, you know, have the fear aspect of it.
Then all of a sudden I'm going into athleticism, which is boxing and that whole side of entertainment as well.
And so I think the modern day entertainers have to do it all.
We went to Mr.
Beast's sort of place in North Carolina or Jimmy's place rather.
And he, sort of give us a tour and he was showing how just analytical the whole operation is yeah it was much yours much more kind of artistic or creative or emergent in terms of like oh just around and find out or like how did you in terms of like what to spend time on what to do in comparison to something that beats operation yeah i think um it's it's similar but i think jimmy is like a numbers guy and is super analytical and Mine is definitely analytical, but not at the level that Jimmy is with how he does things.
And mine is more creative, like entertainment focused and just like kind of like a feeling thing, like you're saying.
But that's why, you know, Jimmy just maxed out the numbers on YouTube and just did every little thing possible to hack the algorithm.
It's interesting because there are a lot of people who will get big but not be super durable.
Whereas you just mentioned you and your brother and Jimmy is the ones that really struck out.
And I'm curious why some people get big for a period of time, but, and I'll hear about them.
They're big on TikTok, they're big on some platform, but I don't hear about them years later.
Like it's.
Yeah, I've seen the biggest stars in the space.
from like day one just not stick around anymore.
It's weird.
It's really weird.
There's a group called MagCon back in the day.
They were like the Justin Biebers of the internet world.
And actually, Shawn Mendes like spun out of there.
He was the one that's like obviously made it really big.
But it's just interesting.
I think people maybe don't have that resiliency.
They get tired of working or making content or going to the new platform.
you know, lose motivation, whatever it might be.
And I think the people who are like truly destined to do this and love doing it and that are talented at it are the ones that have lasted longer.
And I think you almost have to, yeah, diversify.
Like we've gotten into politics, business, growing brands.
And so you start to...
have this audience that follows you for multiple different things.
Some people love my ranch YouTube videos and like only know about that and don't even, but I also have, I'm on an A16Z podcast where like now people in the tech world are hearing about what I'm doing, but they probably won't watch my TikToks.
So I'm doing all these different things and growing audiences in all of these different worlds.
I think that's been the key.
And then I think also knowing how to monetize it and make money.
And I think that's been a reason for us to continue to exist because I think a lot of people in the space don't know how to actually pull cash out.
They can have a lot of followers, but not the cash and cash is king.
So I think that's been another very important reason for the...
I don't even know, 13, 14 years of being at the top of the influencer game.
I think to me, Jake is a startup of himself.
And in startup land, right, it's all power law.
And I think essentially Jake has hit escape velocity.
So I think Jake gets even more powerful in this new era of AI-generated characters and just infinite noise.
because you'll have a lot of AI-generated content and the people that you grew up watching, loving, and just supporting or hating as a child, and that generation is now going to take over from the boomers who are going to be dying off and all of that.
I think you compound just like an open AI and Anthropic are compounding even faster.
So that's where I'm just kind of excited just on the path forward because it's basically like celebrity survivor.
battle right like literally everyone has died off except for like the predestined few and i think the predestined few literally should be like the future billionaire trillionaires if you just extrapolate out that exponential because there's gonna be fewer real people that like you like care about and i think who are i would almost like juxtapose jake and logan with like a mr beast and i don't i mean whatever i'll just i'll just say it as i feel like Mr.
Beast is like so quantitative and analytical that it doesn't matter if Jimmy's in the video or not.
Like swap him out for another, you know, game show host.
Maybe they're not as smooth, but I don't think Jimmy would say that he's even that smooth of a natural like actor or character.
But like his analytics and his taste in terms of selecting the content format is very, very strong.
Poor, I think Jake has a lot of durability is that like you, you like follow his story.
I guess one way I think about it is that if Jake can just talk and get a bunch of views or just live his life and get a bunch of views and someone has to light $100 million in fire to get a bunch of views, who do I want to be partners with?
Who do I think has true skill and true charisma without overly calling other people?
But I think that is a measure in terms of how you take an analytical lens and a structural lens to how do you backward engineer what Jake has been able to accomplish.
To that end, you just said, you know, people need to figure out how to monetize.
How have you figured out what's worth doing from a business perspective and what's not worth doing?
Like, for example, I don't know if you've been in feature films yet or had major roles.
Like, should you be doing that or is that a waste of time?
Like, there's a whole set of activities that where you could do it.
You'd have some special access or opportunity to do it.
People might be telling you you should do it.
How do you think about that?
that's something that we've talked about and explored.
There's been opportunities on the table to act, for example, but I think it's just like, what was the time expenditure?
What was the return in terms of how much money are we making here?
And then who are the people involved?
And is it going to perform well?
And do we like this script?
there's the risk of something going wrong and just like it flops at the box office and everyone shits on you.
Like it happens all the time.
So I think it's, yeah, just staying focused, right?
Like having the boxing as the core of everything for many years and content.
And so never getting away from your bread and butter and staying extremely focused on that and having great teams around.
to help with all of those things.
But yeah, I think things now have to be like 10, 20, $30 million opportunities for me to spend time on it.
And so I think it's pretty measurable from that side of things to the, you know, figure out if, if it's exciting in that sense.
And then I think just on the, besides the money thing and just brand building, I've just been doing it for so long that it's just like instinctual.
Like, is this a good idea?
Yes or no.
And it's pretty obvious, but there are strategy talks and high-level people that huddle around the board.
And sometimes I'll film a piece of content and maybe not post it because it doesn't make sense.
So there is like processes and teams that...
look at everything and conversations and it is pretty strategic, but a lot of it also is just like instinctual and on the fly.
And it becomes more and more obvious as time goes on what the good opportunities are.
Is all good press good press or sorry, is all press good press or most attention good attention?
Or when you look at some of the controversial moments that you guys have been through or that you see other people into, do you think that they...
have been successful in spite of those moments or because of the instinct that led to those moments?
Or how do you think about in this new era of attention?
Yeah, this question.
I would say that not all press is good press for certain people.
For me, yes, because I can like survive it and like...
You're anti-fragile.
Yeah, and just it's, you know, what are they going to say?
Like my neighbor, like the...
first reason I was hated from the very beginning, like on a mat in the mainstream was because I jumped on top of a news van.
So it's like that that's a seriously why people started hating me.
They're like, look at this douchebag.
And I was like making fun of the news reporters shoes.
And it's like, okay, like it seemed like bad press at the time, but like that was like my first like mainstream moment really, um, in the, in the press.
And so I think for certain people, all press is good press, but I don't think it's a saying that is good for everybody and holds true for everybody.
Everything you do has risk.
Just don't take fatal risk.
Like, just don't get yourself killed.
And probably don't go to jail.
People have come back from that.
But like, don't go to jail.
Don't die.
And as long as you take risks and calculated bets and keep compounding, you'll eventually end up somewhere good.
So I think that's like my take on that question, which is that like, I think most people are just too afraid to do anything that even warrants press.
So like, I think when you're already have a platform, then yes, maybe you can be a little bit more cautious, but most people are just totally irrelevant.
Like you need to do something a little bit risky to even get to a place to be.
cancelable.
Most people can't even be canceled because you didn't exist.
So the general advice is like, yo, just live more and do more shit in general because you're nothing and you maybe can get out of nothing.
Retard Max.
Yeah, another way.
Retard Max is cool too, yeah.
I want to understand this new media environment by analyzing a couple people.
Can you guys explain Clavicular?
As in why, what's his talent?
What makes him so successful?
What advice might you have for someone like that?
How do you make sense?
I mean, it's kind of what you just said, what Jeff just said, and he's doing it on the highest level.
It's entertaining.
I think I've had this saying that I've used and I think it holds true in the world of entertainment is that people want to see something.
they've never seen before.
And so it's so new and fresh and different and kind of crazy.
But a lot of the stuff he says is true.
His delivery isn't always the best or whatever.
And he is like very abrasive.
It doesn't care.
But he's talking about a lot of relevant things and everything is out there about him.
So you fully know him and he's not afraid to be fully authentic and say exactly.
uh, expose himself to the world.
And I don't think people have done that.
And, and that's why I think he's, he's been successful.
And then he's also doing things that generate bad press, but it, you know, good news travels fast, bad news travels faster.
So it's growing his brand like wildfire.
And then it just turns into this like loop and he's able to convert it actually into views.
And then he, he keeps on going and all of that.
But yeah, it is pretty wild.
And I think the streaming culture is like really interesting and probably not the best for society because like there's so many of these kids watching and I actually feel like what I was doing on YouTube, like this is the final iteration of it.
And I feel bad for like sort of contributing to where this has gone.
But at the time, I like never, thought of that or like okay i set the bar here as crazy and now people the streamers have to do it every day for multiple hours and to keep people's attention they're having to like do out-of-pocket um which i don't think is like a good influence um but there's obviously It's entertaining.
So...
And just for people not as familiar, my understanding from my limited observations is some of his content is...
Well, he's a streamer, and some of his content is him going to the club and talking to girls and having very sort of humorous conversations.
And then some content is sort of focused on his look-smaxing journey and just giving a lot of advice and doing interviews and kind of saying, you know, sort of out-of-pocket shit to your term around sort of...
relationships or gender norms or just sort of like, you know, how to look much better.
So much to the extent he's invested so much that there was rumors for a while that he may be not able to conceive or something that he may have.
But I think it's not true.
I can't remember exactly.
Is that accurate summary of what like what is Clivecater doing?
Yeah, I would say that's accurate with noting like.
Yeah, he's definitely like very controversial and like taking drugs on the stream and doing pretty crazy things like that.
So, yeah.
Yeah, he spent, I mean, he spent some time, like he like joined Jake's first live stream ever.
Like what was that in person?
I thought he was nice.
Yeah.
I thought he was a nice guy.
Definitely pretty wild on his stream though.
And I'm wild, you know, as an entertainer known as that.
I can turn that on.
Yeah, so if I like him saying that, then it's probably pretty wild.
Yeah.
Is streamer culture today, when you say you were sort of the previous evolution, where do you see it all going?
Is it just going to get crazier and crazier?
Are we going to sort of see new formats?
Or how do you sort of envision the future of kind of like what you, you know, helped create?
Yeah, I think...
we will see new formats and people pop up that are unique and different, but I think that the players that are in it now and are the biggest now will likely remain the biggest.
And so I don't think it'll shift too much in terms of like all the personalities, but I do think things will get crazy, slightly crazier, but it's probably...
already near its peak because the platforms now like aren't allowing certain things to be streamed and they're already getting like you know de-platformed if they do certain things so i think it's probably uh at its at its peak right now with some of the things that are going on i mean talking about like you can't die, you can't go to jail, right?
Like, at some point, someone's going to step on that and boom.
Yeah.
You peak.
The end game of that.
Yeah.
I recently learned that there's like, that kick is like a Twitch, but more edgy.
But then there's like, Rumble is like an even more edgy version of that.
There's just like different streaming platforms for different levels of edginess.
Yeah, exactly.
To your point.
Which is one of the controversial points for...
like when you look at some of the stuff that's been like the hardest for you to handle or the biggest controversial moments or when other people come to you and like, holy shit, I'm in this, you know, massive scandal or so.
How do you how have you like bounced back from that?
Or how do you advise people to bounce back from just like the toughest?
But we're like people actually trying to cancel you and they're succeeding a little bit.
Yeah, I think faith and God, I think God gives its toughest battles.
to his most important soldiers and so there's always for me in all of those moments i had to like learn something go through something and grow and it's always on the other side of it once i've gotten out of certain situations and learned a lot of things etc it's prepared me to fly higher in life and do more things and so i think everything happens for a reason and yeah you can't like victimize yourself and know that if you come out on the other side of it you will be stronger and that will lead and lend to a bigger and better life yeah jeff how about you i mean i think jake puts it really really nicely in terms of whether it's faith in like a higher power or just like a conviction in yourself that what you're doing is truly worth fighting for and battling for and and standing and like dying for.
Right.
So I think it's like and that's why I think just choosing the right mission is so important.
Right.
Like a lot of things that people choose to do, they probably do not care for.
Right.
Like if you hate your job and be still putting, you know, 40 hours, 50 hours a week on it and you're like getting attacked or critiqued for it and like there's no conviction there.
So.
In some sense, if you just choose the right battles to fight for and you're willing to take those arrows because you believe in the mission, you believe in the message, that almost helps you with that faith because you actually believe and have conviction in what you're fighting for.
We're invested in some of the top, most high-profile AI companies and those are some of the topics that we're able to just, I think especially Jake can share his perspective on if people are going through really high-profile like hate on social media or litigation and controversy.
I think Jake having lived through that at some of the highest levels and sharing that how he deals with it is like just super helpful for founders that we talk to and work with.
But I think it just goes back to like, I think if they believe in the mission they're doing, right?
Like if you think that you're making beneficial AGI or you really believe like fusion energy or defense tech and making Americans have best weapon systems as really important.
which we think is really important, then having that strength to fight and battle for that makes it easier if you have that self-conviction that what you're doing is correct.
Someone once asked something like, it seems like you're not that interested in politics.
Why is that?
Is there something like, it doesn't help me with my looks-maxing journey?
So as I say, how have you guys sort of approached politics or not approached politics?
Yeah, how have you guys thought about that?
Yeah, I think it's always been my goal and a part of who I am since I was younger is to help the people around me and to be a leader and to speak my mind on certain things.
And I think when I'm in this position of having a large audience, And as an American, we all have our right to our opinion and to voice our opinion.
That's one of the most beautiful things about this country.
And I think with a lot of people following me, I've taken it upon myself to speak my mind on what I believe in and to hopefully help others understand as well and grow a deeper understanding of politics and some of the things that are going on.
important as American to exercise that right to our opinion and to voice our opinion.
And I've just slowly, you know, started to talk more and more about it openly.
And I think it comes from my dad as well.
He was very political growing up and I've always been involved in it and seeing it and talking about it.
And I think it's the biggest game in life.
And, um, I think it's, interesting to be in those rooms and to talk to those people and to help them, you know, potentially win certain elections, whether that's governor or president or senator.
So it's just been interesting and fun.
And I think it really, truly does make an impact to the American people and society.
I was going to say, that's one thing I respect about Jake, because I know that a lot of people in the public eye, are too afraid to step into politics because it's not good for business, right?
Like Michael Jordan, like everyone buys shoes or whatever, like that quote.
But I respect that Jake, you know, we just had a conversation about this where it's like, you know, like if you actually have conviction, like God or your faith will like pay full dividends for that conviction, right?
And I think there's, and I think there's something to like life.
and your family and your culture, your neighborhood, your communities, arguably more important than just stacking more zeros behind your account.
At a certain point, you win the money maxing game, you win the money game, then it's like, can you actually create a better livelihood for yourself, your kids, your neighbors, your community?
And it takes courageous people like Jake to be like, hey, I'm okay to take a little bit of risk and maybe piss off a segment of people by truly believing this.
It's not some BS.
There's a deep conviction that he will sacrifice monetary opportunity or just reduce optionality because there's true belief and true conviction behind his perspective.
That is what leadership actually is.
So there's no leaders out there and we're totally screwed.
So we need...
people to step up and lead.
Could you see yourself running someday for some sort of elected position?
Yeah, I could see being involved for sure.
And I think it's like become more and more of a thing.
I think Jeff was the first person actually to like talk about it six years ago.
And then obviously President Trump like endorsed me on stage to run for president.
And then backstage was like, I think you should really do it, etc.
I would only want to be involved in it if I was like, the best person to do it and to help the country.
And if some other people on the other side of things that weren't good for the country felt like they had traction, I would probably do it to help the people of America and make sure we don't get wrapped up into this whole socialist communist thing that's going on like in new york with mom don dummy mom dummy yeah that's it um it's really bad and it will lead to um america being in a very very bad place and so if something like that's going on and there's something i can do to help then yeah of course i'm gonna want to get involved or even maybe just help push a candidate and support them So you spent the first 15 years or so, you know, we talk about media, you know, boxing, tech.
If you were to guess over the next five to 10 years, what's something else you might add to your repertoire?
Besides, obviously, going much bigger in the areas you're already in, what could that be?
I would probably say the most like obvious one that I'm like super passionate about is definitely politics.
And that seems to...
you know, grow as I get older as well, because of what Jeff was saying is like, how do I, okay, we have the money, we have this stuff.
Like, how do I help the world and do my part?
And I have the courage and I believe the right mindset on it and the right way to think about it and finding truth, not only within myself, but that becomes a practice out there in the world.
And so I believe.
that a lot of my takes and opinions and thoughts on it are the ones closest to truth and really just finding what's best for the people and for the country and for, you know, creating the future for my kids.
And if I can be helpful in that, and I think, and I know I can, and I know I have very, a very good way of thinking about things, then yeah, I would.
definitely see myself in the next 10 to 15 years in that arena for sure.
Last question on this topic.
High level, what are the, what's the topic or what are the topics that you care most about in that arena that make sure we really get right?
Yeah, I mean, I think education first and foremost, and I think it's like so, it's bad.
It hasn't been reformed since, you know, what the 1920s, the 1930s, there's been no change and the world has changed so much.
And I think there you see, you know, being in the investing world, you see some of these like newer aged startups that are focused on school popping up.
What's the one?
Alpha, Alpha School.
Very like impressed with what they're doing.
And I think creating that future, you're almost, you know, planting seeds of a fruit tree with changing the education system because then in 30, 40 years, the country is going to have a lot smarter people, a lot better educated people.
And that ripple effect just impacts society so much and in a massive way.
And we also don't want to fall behind with other countries.
And I think it also lends itself to finance.
And the number one problem I think that's out there right now with young men and young women even is like, how do they make money?
Where do they make money?
And If that education is in place and you're prepared and you actually learn about maybe how to do taxes in school and not like about the fucking Pythagorean theorem, I think that would be a much better outcome for the people of America.
And it's just wild to me that something like that isn't taught.
amongst many other things.
And so I believe the economy would thrive more from education.
And yeah, the list goes on.
I mean, I think one thing that's cool is like the Invest America accounts, the Trump accounts.
I know that Jake is supporting the team there on that.
Maybe you want to talk a little bit more about that.
But I think in terms of allowing the next generation of young Americans actually participate with the fastest growing private companies and having them be a shareholder and a stakeholder in success of American innovation is really, really important, right?
That ties into education, right?
To Jake's point, if people don't grow up knowing how to compound their money, right?
Like, I think it's, people should know the Pythagorean theorem and the quadratic equation, but yes, you should know actually how, like, taxes.
No, they shouldn't.
It's literally taking up space in my brain.
But like, knowing how- And I don't have a lot of space, okay?
So.
But knowing how like wealth compounds and how it is really important.
And I think with like the Trump accounts, like having every little kid see their little stock portfolio and realizing, hey, like this is how money and investing works is super important.
To that end, Jeff, if you were 18 today, knowing what you know, would you go to college?
Or like, do you advise people to go to college?
How do you think about that?
Yeah, I think.
Peter Thiel in some sense is like kind of hypocritical when he's like, don't go to college where he had Stanford undergrad, Stanford law school, he got all the badges, right?
So not, but I think the underlying point is correct.
But to me, like getting a badge is useful if you don't have any other badges, right?
Like Jake could not have to have the institutional badge of being educated because he became world class at what he does.
as a content creator, an athlete, a media personality, an entertainer.
But if you're not like Jake, then you need to like get some external badges, right?
Like you got to win a science fair, win a math competition.
And if happens to be like, you know, you go to Harvard, that's a really good badge to say like, hey, at some external validator that you're at least good at something, right?
So to me, it's like, I think all of us should try to aspire to be best in the world at something.
And it could be the best violin player, it could be the best business person, it could be the best boxer, or the best, like, I don't know, podcaster, or just the best, like, artist, or the best, like, doodler, right?
But, like, everyone should have some God-given, like, talent to be potentially the best in the world at.
And then, two, if there's, like, education badges that help you, like, validate and give you that confidence that you can be, I think that's actually very valuable.
But I think in terms of, like, the educational content, I think that will be reformed there, right?
Like I think the education system will change, but I think the badging system will not change.
So my advice would be like, collect some badges as a kid, right?
Become the best YouTuber or go to Stanford, go to Harvard.
Get some badges and that I think gives you a lot of confidence to like do the next thing, like a real thing.
Jake, are you seriously considered going to Stanford?
I went there today and I was like, this is beautiful.
We went to the church and, yeah, I don't know.
I think it could be funny or interesting, but I would definitely, I think it would lend itself.
Like I do have NFL aspirations after boxing.
I want to play slot receiver.
And so I think to, you know, get that experience in college first would be good.
So I could walk onto the Stanford team.
Yeah, I'm being serious though.
Yeah.
Well, this might be the first podcast you mentioned it.
It is.
And it happened, the idea of it happened today.
Because I was like, well, I was originally thinking I'll just go straight to the Cleveland Browns or Dallas Cowboys.
But they're probably going to want to see me play first.
And so it might be better if I start off in college and have a...
A little bit of an advantage over the younger, not as big kids before going into the NFL.
That's amazing.
I want to close on some anti-fun topics.
Jeff, you talked a little bit about founder taste and how important it is and how rare it is to actually have it.
Talk about what it means and how you guys have developed it.
I mean, I think through both our journeys, I mean, I think...
I remember like some of our early conversations with Jake, like Jake's met some of the most fucking weird, crazy, hustler, scammy people through his career, like going, you know, 16 to Hollywood and just like getting thrown to the wolves, right?
So I think, and like me coming up in Silicon Valley, Stanford, Y Combinator, I think we just got a lot of reps at meeting people, getting pitched things, doing bad deals, making mistakes.
So I don't...
there might be some talent or EQ or people reading skill, but I think a lot of it is probably just a ton of reps, right?
Like, and again, maybe going full circle to the top, like, I think, I remember, like, you know, recatching up when Jake was 23, 24, it's like, oh man, this guy's like, got a lot of reps and a lot of stuff that like 50-year-old men never deal with, right?
Just like, oh, like, litigation, this, business deal, someone, business issues or success, right?
Like, just, He just had a, like, he just, like, he lives in dog years, right?
Like, that's, like, I feel like that's, Laura recently joined a stand-up Jake's family office and running it.
I mean, it's, like, the amount of stuff that we've done in the last couple months is just, like, probably it's, like, two years worth of, like, shit in, like, two months.
So, so I think there's, like, that people reading aspect, but I think it ultimately goes down to, like, okay.
Do they have a passion and like a reason to believe why they can be world-class of what they choose to pursue?
And then two, are they resilient and tough enough to eat a ton of shit to get there?
Those are like the two like attributes.
And I think that's like, you know, some measure of IQ and then personality read.
And just, yeah, track record, you know, and leaning on...
other people that we trust and respect for background on certain people and their dealings with them.
So I think reference checks are also very important for us.
It's, yeah, one of the companies we invested in, like a defense tech, we just like hit up Palmer Lucky's team and we're like, yeah, what do you think of this group?
So always referencing our...
our network for the certain categories of things that we're working on and that's proven to work really well.
You've made investments in some iconic companies.
We listed some of them earlier.
We'll also put you a bunch of the show notes, but you've also incubated, you know, getting a bit better.
Could you show yourself incubating more companies where you have unfair advantage like you did in sort of, you know, betting or how do you think about that?
Yeah, definitely.
I think have been noodling on certain things to found currently and just like seeing how the world is evolving with this current, you know, AI boom and just seeing the world change and all of this stuff.
And so there's been ideas and, you know, we've grown some of these companies so where they like run themselves like better, for example, and I spend a limited amount of time on it.
now because it's just the team is fully built out.
And so I think there is a dynamic shift happening for us right now where there's kind of an open slot to potentially found and start something new in this current landscape.
And it's definitely enticing, but obviously there's so much going on right now.
And, you know, you could launch a company and then, you know, open AI or Claude.
replicates it next week and you're kind of shit out of luck.
Yeah, totally.
We were talking earlier about the need to monetize.
Anecdotally, I've seen the sort of creator class get a lot smarter, more sophisticated about, you know, we've never, like yourself, getting into venture, getting into private equity.
But even, you know, Jimmy was originally making chocolate.
Now he's just bought a bank.
He's like, hey, I can make a dollar off a customer.
Maybe you can make hundreds of dollars off a customer.
And so you guys getting into actually building software product, you know, and companies sort of.
I feel like people are getting more sophisticated about where the value is.
And I'm excited to see that trend continue.
Yeah, thank you.
And yeah, I think as we become more sophisticated, yeah, it's like cool to sell, you know, I won't say like which companies or whatever, but like we want to play a bigger game and shift humanity, you know, while doing that.
Yeah, I think it's a good place to wrap.
Yeah.
Jake, Jeff.
You guys are doing something really exciting.
We're excited to be co-investors in a number of companies together and more to come.
Thanks so much for coming to the podcast.
Thanks, man.
Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.
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