# Product Leadership in the AI Era: Judgment, Taste, and Impact

**Podcast:** Product Momentum Podcast
**Published:** 2026-06-09

## Transcript

Mike, we've been hanging out with you for years, right?
In your role as the founder of the Product Collective and the ultimate showrunner of the industry conferences, and now you've taken on this new role.
So first, you are now the head product evangelist at Pendo.
Yeah.
What is product evangelism and how are you crushing it at Pendo?
Yes, so head of product evangelism at Pendo, and that is a new role for me.
One that I've just stepped into weeks ago.
So I might have to tell you a year from now what that really means.
But I will say what it kind of comes down to is like Pendo has a unique point of view on how it helps product people.
There's all sorts of ways that they're helping product people.
What product evangelism is all about is how we can do that on the road in different ways.
That's not through the software.
I would love to just hear you.
What kind of prompted that idea that you wanted to actually sit down and start writing a book?
If you managed to maybe find something that's harder than organizing a conference?
Well, I guess I'll start by saying I wasn't planning on ever writing a book again.
I guess I should say again, because I wrote a book that was not even product related over a decade ago.
And what happened is the publisher, Wiley, reached out kind of out of the blue.
We think you have a pretty unique point of view.
you've helped lead two product communities with product collective and mind the product and you've been at the center of product being a person that product leaders turn to and confide in and that's a pretty unique perspective that you have but the last few customer the customer conversation i guess it was a customer conversation last few product leader conversations i had um there are two questions i try to ask that are common no matter what conversation i have which is what is exciting you the most right now and what's keeping you up at night?
And the thing that I noticed was that in those conversations, I got the same answer almost across the board to both questions, which was this AI everything world that we're living in right now.
On one hand, it's super exciting.
We could do things now that we could never do before and we're creating faster than ever.
But on the other hand, This is what's keeping me up at night.
Like, what does this mean for my role?
I think that that's where we're getting into this, you know, people see the output, but they don't.
They're not taking the time to assess quality.
100%.
There's a balance to it is the reality of it, right?
And I think it's like we can, I definitely believe in trying to get to a point where we're creating much faster than before.
But we have to make sure we're creating like using.
the inputs that we have too.
I do think like this AI everything world we're in now lets us access and do something with the data sooner, but we can't forget about that part.
Like we have to remember that like it's not just about creating for creating sake.
It's like it is creating the right thing.
We are here live with Mike Belcedo.
Mike, we've been hanging out with you for years, right?
In your role as the founder.
of the product collective and the like ultimate showrunner of the industry conferences and now you've taken on this new role you're writing a new book and you're coming back to our product and design conference so we're really excited that you're here with us live today so first you are now the head product evangelist at pendo yeah what is product evangelism and how are you crushing it at pendo well i First of all, thank you for having me back.
And it's been awesome being here and hanging out with you guys these last few years.
Yeah, it's been a few years now.
So that part's really cool.
Yes, so Head of Product Evangelism at Pendo.
And that is a new role for me.
One that I've just stepped into weeks ago.
So I might have to tell you a year from now what that really means.
But I will say what it kind of comes down to is like Pendo has a unique point of view on how it helps product people.
It does that through its software.
And now, like, it's all kind of software.
It used to be just like, hey, we help software companies through analytics.
But now there's agent analytics.
There's all sorts of ways that they're helping product people.
What product evangelism is all about is how we can do that on the road in different ways.
That's not through the software.
So really what that means is being able to talk about the topics that we care about, whether it be on...
podcasts like this at conferences at events um so that's fun for me because as you know i love being at conferences and events and so um yeah it's very fitting what it means is i'll be producing a lot more content so i had a podcast in the past rocketship.fm produced almost 700 episodes from that I'm excited that very soon, maybe by the time we air this, who the heck knows, there'll be a new show that I'll be bringing to life for Pendo.
And so I think you could expect more content from me and more conversations from me.
Seems like you're going to be like permanently in like user discovery mode, right?
I think that's a part that I've always loved about what I did, even from the early days at Product Collective is like, yeah, I love...
The conferences were especially special because we're bringing people to us, but it was the fact that we could be in the same room with product people, learning from them, especially because working remote like I do, and I have worked remote the last 10 years, most of my days I'm in my attic in Lakewood, Ohio, and I see nobody, no human beings except on Zoom.
So anytime I could be with product people, I love that.
So at conferences, I love that.
But yeah, now just being...
I don't even say on the road, even if it's just like one-on-one conversations with product leaders, like it's what can I learn from product leaders that I could then take back and share with the team at Pendo and mine the product and help all of us grow.
Like that's part of the role.
Awesome.
So, I mean, user research, you're also writing a book.
I would love to just hear what kind of prompted that idea that you wanted to actually sit down and start writing a book.
If you managed to maybe find something that's harder than organizing a conference.
Well, I guess I'll start by saying I wasn't planning on ever writing a book again.
I guess I should say again, because I wrote a book that was not even product-related over a decade ago.
And what happened is the publisher, Wiley, reached out kind of out of the blue.
In fact, when they reached out, I'm like, is this even a legit email?
Is this one of these phishing emails or scam emails?
Are they selling me something?
And when I took the call with the acquisitions editor that had reached out, he's like, no, no, no, no.
we think you have a pretty unique point of view.
You've helped lead two product communities with Product Collective and Mind the Product.
And you've been at the center of product, being a person that product leaders turn to and confide in.
And that's a pretty unique perspective that you have.
And it made me think, because sometimes it's like, it's easy to sort of forget that that is what I've been doing.
You know, like for me, these are friends now.
Like, it's like the people that I'm texting and it's not, I'm not thinking of it as like, oh, I'm a product leader is confiding in me.
It's just, these are people I'm friends with and have good conversations with.
But as I thought about it, I'm like, I guess that is a pretty unique point of view.
Like there aren't that many people that I guess could say the same thing where they're in those conversations and not just like at conferences.
It's like, it's not so much what's happening on the stage.
It's actually what's happening like backstage in the green rooms where people are like, oh, you liked my talk, thanks.
But here's what I really think, you know, like.
Hearing those types of conversations, like having a pulse like that is, I guess it is unique.
And so when Wiley reached out about that and they said, like, we think you have the unique perspective, would you be open to writing a book?
My first inclination was to say no, because I'm like, I will admit going from, you know, working at a three person independent company like we were with Product Collective, where every day my day started by just, you know.
Before I open the laptop, I'm like, where can I make the biggest impact today?
And I open the laptop and I do my best to make that impact.
To then working at a company like Pendo, you know, it's nearly a thousand team members.
I don't remember the exact number.
It changes every day with like people coming and going.
But there, you know, there's a lot of people within the company.
And so for me, being able to, I guess, adjust to going to like just working on a three-person team to a much larger...
large organization it's an adjustment for me personally you know so i'm like i'm still figuring out this adjustment am i even doing this right like it made me feel like how i felt when i first got into product i was questioning myself a lot and like am i even doing this right but kind of paused before saying no and reminded myself that like you know opportunities like this don't come around too often and i have friends that have been fighting for book deals and trying to get an agent's attention, trying to shop a manuscript that they have.
And I'm like, if this is an opportunity that's coming up, maybe I should do the hard thing and actually try to make something out of this.
And if it can help product people too, like who am I to say, like, oh, this sounds too hard.
I shouldn't do it.
So I pushed myself to say yes.
But then the trick was, they're like, well, what would you write about?
And I'm like, well, I knew that.
knew that question was coming.
I just made the first big decision, which is saying yes.
Exactly.
And so the thing that came to mind immediately was the last several conversations that I was having with product leaders.
So all the time, I try to have regular conversations with product leaders.
And I don't even just mean the people that are speaking on our stages or that are appearing on the podcast.
Just people that are just doing the work.
I feel like it's important for me to stay.
as closely connected to people that are actually doing the work as I can so that I can help build the great conferences or, you know, produce good content.
And so like maybe in the product, we'd be thinking that as like a customer interviewer, but it's not, that's not how I think about it, you know?
So, but the last few customer, the customer conversation, I guess it was a customer conversation.
Last few product leader conversations I had, there are two questions I try to ask that are common no matter what conversation I have, which is.
what is exciting you the most right now and what's keeping you up at night?
And the thing that I noticed was that in those conversations, I got the same answer almost across the board to both questions, which was this AI everything world that we're living in right now.
On one hand, it's super exciting.
We could do things now that we could never do before and we're creating faster than ever.
But on the other hand, This is what's keeping me up at night.
Like, what does this mean for my role?
Am I being, am I going to be automated out of the picture?
Like these were the conversations I was having.
And so I said to Wiley, like, maybe I can write about this shift that's happening, this AI everything shift.
And they thought that that was a really good idea.
So I started researching on that, which research just meant more conversations with product leaders.
And that's when I quickly realized I could never write that book because.
The whole process of writing.
This widely reached out to me last summer.
So summer 2026.
No, summer's 2025.
The manuscript will be due August 2026.
The book, if all goes well, on the publishing side, would be released February 2027.
So conversations I'm having at the middle of 2025, I have to predict what the world is going to look like in February 2027.
I was going to say, just to be very upfront with y'all, I do not know what the world is going to look like.
What we were talking about as AI in 2025 might seem so elementary in early 2027.
Like, well, we have achieved AGI by then.
Like, who the heck knows?
I don't know.
So I knew I couldn't write an AI book.
And I probably, frankly, wouldn't be the right person to write the AI book.
When I was also having those conversations with product people, what they were saying is like, you know, Mike, and some of them are a little older than me, and they're like, Mike, I remember being in product when the internet was just becoming popular.
Or certainly like, and I remember working during the introduction of mobile, where we went from everything on a laptop to now everything on a device, a computer that we keep in our pocket.
And what they had told me was like, look how...
product people evolved in those periods of massive change, it's kind of relying on the same timeless characteristics that we've always thought were important.
And even today, we still think are important, which are things like curiosity, judgment, taste.
It's things that like we might consider these like soft skills now.
And we might even think that like, oh, in this AI everything world, like it's more important to concentrate on the tech aspect of it.
But I actually think it's more important than ever, especially when AI can help us create more than ever, that those things become even more important because we need to make sure we're creating the right thing.
So that's kind of what the book is all about.
It's focusing not so much on, I mean, I am trying to acknowledge this AI world we're living in, but it's less about the AI.
It's more about the timeless core characteristics that can help product people evolve.
In this AI everything world, but I would argue in any kind of shift that we're going to experience.
I think you're uniquely positioned to write something like that because you've got the perspective of, hey, we have these two events that we can look back on in history.
But also, you do get to go all over the world now, right, and collect this feedback from people.
So you are going to get a lot of different perspectives to kind of apply to those two events and see, like, hey, what can we?
maybe predict.
But I'm wondering what else besides, we know AI, core product skills, right?
Those are the two things that you're mentioning right now.
What else are you hearing from the field, maybe internationally or even here at home?
Like, what are the other things that are driving people kind of crazy right now?
We know that those two big topics, like we've been talking about core product skills ever since we had our Teresa Torres interview.
And we feel like we are...
like contractually obligated to talk about AI in every podcast.
So yeah, we've checked that box, right?
What else are you hearing people being really concerned about or like really excited about right now?
Yeah.
Well, I think this is, I mean, it is related to AI, but it's not necessarily AI, like it's not only about AI, but it's just that like we're in this world where now people are rewarded almost for output.
Like I'm here, you know, there's like this concept of token maxing where it's like, oh, we're, how much can we actually use this?
Yeah, exactly.
Like companies.
And I believe it like, hey, there's a reason to show a leaderboard and like, oh, who's used the most quad tokens this month?
Yeah, let's cheer them on.
But the thing is like, we also came up in this world where we were all told that like we should actually at first we all celebrated output.
It's like how much.
You know, how much did we deliver this week?
Great.
We deliver this much.
Can we deliver a little more software next week?
A little more software the next week.
But then it came to a point where we got all the product people on board like, hey, actually shouldn't be about output.
It should be about outcomes.
And I actually think more recently, Matt LeMay, a friend of mine, like he's been trumpeting.
It's beyond outcomes, though.
Beyond outcomes for your customers.
It's also impact.
It's got to be impact for your company, too.
But now we're talking about token maxing.
So now we're like celebrating output again.
And I'm at this like for me personally, it was so like the conversations I've had with people, like they're like, but wait, are we cool with output now?
Like how do we make sure that it's not just about the output, that it's like we're building the right things.
And honestly, I feel conflicted about that because do I believe that we should figure out ways to be using AI and integrating it into our process as much as we can?
I do.
But also, I don't necessarily believe that just by measuring the amount of tokens we're using, like, that's the right thing to do either.
Like, I don't want to forget about the outcomes either.
So it's hard.
You ask the question, like, beyond AI, it's kind of, that is more of an outcomes versus output conversation.
But there is some, it is built on top of AI.
It's kind of hard to answer without it.
And we see some of that live here.
So, like, you know, I have a title and I've been in this game for a while.
But, like, somebody came to me recently.
With like, hey, do we need to write user stories anymore?
Because look at what I just put together with this prompt.
And it's like, look at this.
There's like eight pages.
There's like eight pages of content here.
And my question was like, well, is it good?
Right.
Is it the right thing?
And I cut kind of a blank stare back.
And the answer was like, yeah, but there's a lot of it.
Yeah.
Right.
And I was like, you're coming to me, right, with my reputation and my title.
And we work for the same company.
Would you put this in front of a client?
Now, I think that that's where we're getting into this, you know, people see the output, but they don't, they're not taking the time to assess quality.
Right.
A hundred percent.
There's a balance to it is the reality of it.
Right.
And I think it's like, we can, I do, I definitely believe in trying to get to a point where we're creating much faster than before.
But we have to make sure we're creating, like using the inputs that we have to like that.
my employer.
That's the reason Pendo exists, right?
Like Pendo has all this data that companies can use and now data about the agents even that they're deploying, which is that's the whole point of like, it's now isn't just the point of accessing the data, but it's then doing something with that data.
So I do think like this AI everything world we're in now lets us access and do something with the data sooner, but we can't forget about that part.
Like we have to remember that like, it's not just about creating for creating sake.
It's like, it is creating the right thing.
And how do we make sure that we're always doing what we can to create the right thing?
Now we can experiment faster than ever before too.
So I think that's great.
Like we can, I'm all for creating, but then making sure that we can validate what it is that we actually created.
And I would even say like, even before you get to the point where you're creating, like take that extra step to.
use whatever data you can quantitative or qualitative and like actually figure out is this the right thing first which doesn't it doesn't mean you have to go through all the hoops you went through before this you know super hyper speed world that we're living in right now yeah but i still think that part's important it seems like yeah like there there's an easy trap too right like oh i can type like any thought into yeah in an agent into a gpt and get something back but like we still have to pause and think about what we're doing right like it's not The AI is not the shortcut for the thinking part of product.
No, and in fact, I think like this is the exciting part is hopefully the things that we can automate away allow us to think about it more, allow us to focus specifically on judgment and taste and like, is this the right thing?
And I feel like that's the big sort of shift that's happening now is like the product people that were always the builders at heart and wanted to get to that point, but they just sort of had to deal with that other stuff.
They're loving the situation that we're in right now, or at least the promise of what it could become.
If there are product people out there that were like relishing, which I don't, in fairness, I don't know too many people that would say they relished the stakeholder meetings internally, or they relished the passing of information from one group to the other group.
But I think if somebody really found themselves, because it could be, it could have been very easy for a lot of people to find that 90% of what they were doing was that.
And if that's all you know, and that's all you're, you haven't kind of pushed yourself or aren't willing now to push yourself to kind of like learn the next steps, you might be in trouble now in this new world kind of that we're in.
But the optimist to me is like, I think most people got into product not to push information around.
It was like create cool stuff that make an impact for our customers, right?
Like, so I think the people that are in it for those reasons.
Like this is now like Christmas every day for them, or at least again, that's the promise of it.
I'm curious.
Yeah, you've been writing the book for a bit.
Yeah.
In your research, anything that's come up that's either like surprised you or changed your perspective?
I think, again, one of the things I well, one of the things that did surprise me is that there are certain people that I was interviewing that I expected them to go right into like when I'm like, hey, in this new world that we're in, like what?
you know, what do you feel like is changing for product people?
And again, where they went wasn't the technical aspects of it.
And again, maybe it's because, again, who the heck knows?
Technically, things are changing so fast.
Things that...
took usually like a year to change.
I feel like those are changing now in like a matter of weeks, sometimes days.
So maybe that was part of it is like everybody's feeling like, well, gosh, I don't know what's going to happen in six months technology wise.
But it's like when I asked them, hey, in this new world that we're living in, like what do you feel like is most important for product people?
When they really came down to it, it wasn't the tech side of things.
It was more about.
Well, hey, how can you make sure that you're constantly practicing making better judgment, being more curious?
And I think that was the thing, too.
Like I there used to be a time where I would think about something like curiosity and I would think that it was something that it's like, oh, that a person is innately curious or they're not.
You know, like Dan is a curious person.
Sean's a curious person or is not a curious person.
But like.
I wasn't thinking of it as a practice.
And that's where like in some of the research, like people really encourage like, actually, like, I feel like I'm curious, but also hear the things that I do to sort of like stretch that curiosity muscle or flex that curiosity muscle.
And that's what I'm trying to capture in the book is like not just it's like there's a chapter about curiosity.
It's not like be more curious, you know, but it's like, you know, these are the things that you can actually do to sort of.
you know, stretch or flex that muscle and become like, yes, you'll become a more curious person, but it's because of the actions that you're taking.
I mean, that reminds me, we were at a conference last year and it was a similar discussion about creativity, right?
Where like creativity, I think it was like, oh, you have a job, but like it's a skill.
You can learn it.
You can practice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you so much for being with us today.
Yeah.
Our relationship actually started not at one of your conferences, but actually at...
our product and design conference.
So this year, the ITX product and design conference is at the Riverside Convention Center.
It's June 24th and 25th.
And you will be emceeing for the fifth year in a row.
That's right.
Why do you keep coming back?
You keep asking me.
So like step one is I keep getting asked.
Step two is for me.
And I mentioned this before.
Anytime I'm in the room full of hundreds of product people.
that's a special time for me.
And I, especially, you know, in a different place, like a place that I don't get to come to very often.
Rochester is not that far from Cleveland, but like oftentimes my travels are taking me to like the Bay area or London or New York city.
And you know what?
You get a certain perspective when you're over in those areas.
And I love visiting those areas, but I'll tell you when I talk to product people at home in Cleveland, And they're watching the podcasts out there that are profiling the latest, greatest Bay Area product thinker.
They're watching that and they might even enjoy the episode, but they're like, you know what?
This doesn't work where I'm at.
This isn't reality for me.
Okay, now there's one product person and 20 AI agents at that company.
That's cool.
But my company, which is a bank that employs 50,000 people or an insurance agency that employs tens of thousands of people, we're not there yet and we won't be there for a couple of years.
Those are the conversations I have more often in Cleveland.
And I feel like it's probably similar to places like Rochester, too.
It's real companies.
There's real product people working at real companies that are facing real problems.
And so for me, I love hearing about those real problems.
Like, I think it's good to get perspective from all sorts of different product people that are out there.
And you hear the like the challenges that exist here might be a little bit different, might be a lot different than a place like in the Bay Area.
And honestly, like I just learned so much.
So it's like when I'm talking to people that.
are like people I've met at the ITX product and design conference in the past.
Like they're people that now that I'm putting together like an early reader list, like for my book.
Yeah, there might be some of these like influencers on that list too.
But it's some people I met from the conference in the past who I want to read the book and like, give me your feedback.
Like, tell me where I'm going wrong here, you know?
And so I'd say that's it.
It's like, for me, I enjoy being here.
They're great.
It's always friendly people.
But more than that, it's like...
These are people that I've always felt like I could learn a lot from.
Yeah.
I like it.
There's our new tagline for the conference, right?
Like rooted in reality, but forward facing.
Yeah.
Love it.
Right.
Thank you so much for being here today.
Shout out to Paul McAvinci.
I meant to call you out earlier.
Right.
But we're really looking forward to having you with us in June.
And, you know, good luck with the book.
You're actually here speaking at the ITX office tonight for a Tech Rochester event.
So you can't leave.
No, I'm here.
And I'll give a shout out to Paul as well.
It was Paul and I both that started Product Collective together.
And he's with me at Pendo too.
So we're both now continuing to be in the world that we love with product people.
And here in Rochester, night like tonight and coming up at the ITX Product and Design Conference in June, we'll be doing the same thing.
It'll be a lot of fun.
Really is.