# Tokenizing Institutional Funds for Retail Access

**Podcast:** The Milk Road Show
**Published:** 2026-04-28

## Transcript

and you're going to have a lot of fiat that is going to come on chain.
Once the dollar are on chain, what are you going to do?
You're not going to go back and invest in analog products.
But again, a lot of those investors are unlikely to go and get comfortable investing in pure crypto assets.
They may want to look at digital products from names that they recognize.
What's up, everybody?
It's LG Ducet here and welcome to the Milk Roach Show, the daily crypto show that may have spoken too soon yesterday.
When we said we were all excited about the move to 80K.
Today is April 28th, 2026.
We're not going to talk about prices today.
We have stuff that's a little bit more interesting and a little bit more long-term to discuss.
We know that someday, soon, everything is going to be on-chain.
After all, the total adjustable market for global assets is like $600 trillion or something like that, and only $30 billion of those assets are on-chain today.
But the big question is, where does the value actually get captured?
Our guest today is running a protocol that's bringing traditional funds on chain and actually landing them on L1s you wouldn't typically suspect being part of the action like Sui, Cy, Aptos, Near, all of those.
Olivier Dung, co-founder of Kayo, is on the show today.
Today's episode is brought to you by Cape, the privacy-first mobile carrier, Pharos, the layer one built for RealFi, and Consensus Miami, where the next cycle starts.
Olivier, what's up, man?
Hey, hey, how are you?
I'm good, man.
Great to have you on.
I want to understand really quickly, before we kind of get into it, because RWA is again something that we try and really break down.
But I want to understand what does Kaio do exactly as like an RWA protocol, if you even call it that?
Yeah, we are a protocol and our specialization, our focus has always been on alternative phones.
And it's started from a very simple thesis, which is Those funds like a hedge fund, private equity fund and so on are pretty hard to access unless you have a bank account at a private bank and a few million dollars in your account.
And we wanted to make those a bit more accessible to institutional and professional investors and at some point all the way down to retail with tickets as well as $100 to invest in.
Tokenization sold for this extremely well.
You are making the whole process which is very paper-based.
a lot more simple, a lot more streamlined, and then you're on a ball distribution through different channels that are typically not the ones where those alternative funds are typically looking to raise from.
So that has been our thesis from day one, and we've been busy cooking and building over the last two years.
And we've been live for a couple of months now with almost 100 million of AUM or TVL on the platform.
That's amazing.
So what, so okay, this is a lot of good information that I want to understand.
What You have almost $100 million TVL on the platform.
What are those?
I think that this is what we're trying to understand with RWAs.
We've had different people come on and explain what these funds are that are coming on chain.
And we've talked about housing and all this other stuff that's coming on.
But what you guys have seems very institutional.
And I just want to understand what those are so we can understand what has already started to move on chain.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, I've been in crypto a long time.
And when I saw a few years ago, things like real estate or art or whiskey or wine or you name it, going on chain, I felt that was, you know, an interesting idea, but probably unlikely to scale.
And that's why we thought let's take something that is already big in terms of an asset class, but that has a lot of kind of issues to scale in terms of retail access.
So we take those very institutional grade funds, the ones we have tokenized.
to token us today are BlackRock Money Market Fund, hedge fund, run by one of the largest hedge fund in the world called Brevin Award.
And then a private credit fund, which is managed by Hamilton Lane, a very large alternative asset manager.
And then a few others, such as Laser Digital, which is one of our main shareholders, who has built more like a crypto yield fund.
We just announced recently as well, we're launching a fund managed by Mubadala, one of the largest sovereign wealth funds in the Middle East.
So yeah, you're 100% right, those are very institutional funds.
And the people who are currently investing in those tends to be a bit more on the institutional side.
I would say crypto institutional, so large foundations, crypto wells.
And our goal is to start to broaden the footprint so that we have a bit more people that are, you know, in the retail space starting to enter into those.
But the phones are typically phones that you could buy on a, you know, a typical kind of a web to structure.
But like I say, to get access to those, you either need a bank account at, you know, Morgan Stanley private bank or, you know, you name it.
And it's not necessarily for you and me to get access to those.
So what we wanted...
to do is make those a bit more accessible.
And why?
Because I think they offer very attractive risk return profiles.
Hedge Fund that is, you know, very alpha and absolute driven offers returns across market cycle.
Money market fund that is, you know, indexed to US Treasury yield offers you a good way to generate yield on a daily basis.
So those are products that are not necessarily very easy to access if you are sitting in retail with your typical kind of products.
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I just want to understand what these are exactly.
So this first one, this BlackRock ICS US dollar liquidity fund, what exactly is that?
That's one of the largest funds in the world that invests very simply in US treasuries.
And they have, you know, very sophisticated strategies where there is a bit more duration and a bit more strategies that are managed by BlackRock and generates around, you know, 3.5-4% yield.
What we are doing is working with a distributor and tokenizing that fund and we make this accessible.
for as low as in this case, a thousand dollars, you could go and invest and you get a token that represents a fund unit, basically.
You have to do it through Kayo today.
So you have to be KYC, you have to be onboarded because, you know, the full distribution to retail is not yet something we support, although we have plans for that.
But literally, then the token, the Kayo token that represents these funds mimics exactly the returns associated to that fund.
Got it.
Okay.
Okay.
And how does this work?
Because I'm just looking at the, the, how it, so there's, so this fund specifically, which I think is your biggest one, right?
This one has a, yeah, like 35 to 40 minutes.
And on the, and on here on, um, we kind of see the distribution.
I should also use the Kayo website.
So you see that the supply that's on each chain is split across near and sui and immutable and Ethereum.
What, I guess I'm just trying to understand which part is on chain and why is it split across so many different L1s?
I'm just trying to understand how that works.
Yeah.
Maybe we need to start a bit from our vision initially.
We were always chain agnostic.
I'm a TradFi guy, you know, I've been in crypto long guy, but at heart I'm a TradFi guy.
And I don't really know which layer one, which layer two is going to win the battle, or even if one is going to win or if it's going to be spread out across multiple chains.
They each have their pros and cons.
And what we decided to do from the get go is like, let's not select one ecosystem.
Let's build something that through the technology of Kayo and, you know, in simple terms, it's a bridge literally, but, you know, we have built those Kayo gateways.
that enables us to bridge into, you know, any, almost any, any chain.
It takes us like a couple of weeks to build those gateways.
And you can start and add a new chain if we work with the foundation of that layer one in a couple of weeks, add a new chain there.
So what's the point you say?
you ask to add a new chain.
For different reasons, you know, there are certain ecosystem where the capital is in that ecosystem and it doesn't want to go out and bridge into another one, but still want access to the products that we have.
So we have built, I think, close to 12 gateways, 11, 12 gateways.
You have them listed there.
So from Nier, Sui, Mutabol.
Aptos, Ethereum, Hedera, and all of those are live.
It's on-chain.
Those products are on-chain.
And if you sit in Hedera and you have your ecosystem there and you want access to the BlackRock ICS fund, don't want to go out into Ethereum or another chain, you can do that directly.
Okay, so the chain choices are being driven by the people that are buying part of this fund.
through kiosk demand driven okay that's what i wanted to understand so it's not you guys you guys are just creating kind of like a multi-chain gateway where people can from any chain come and invest here or come and uh i don't even call it invest but just like buy the shares i guess or invest i guess uh but and then and then that's what you're seeing demand so that's interesting so this is something i feel like an angle we haven't seen because i think a lot of people are really wondering you know especially you zoom out into the We talk a lot about cycle and price action and all that kind of stuff.
And people really wonder, like, what is the role of L1s?
We've seen that as such a huge debate in the last six, 12 months in the space.
You know, what is the value of these L1s?
People post funny screenshots of L1s that make zero money and none of them that are here.
These are all really good ones.
But I'm just saying is that I haven't seen anything for...
that kind of shows us that direct demand through those L1s into funds that are coming directly basically from Wall Street.
So I think that that's really interesting, man.
Were you guys surprised at all by which chains are seeing the most volume here?
Because we're seeing at the top of the charts for these different funds, you've got Hedera, Near, Immutable, we see a lot.
Aptos is at the top of your Brevin Howard one.
Again, that's what stood out to me.
Yeah, surprise to a certain extent.
I think we've been initially working closely with those foundations and they help us assess what they saw as, you know, the appetite from their ecosystem into those type of products.
So I'm not entirely surprised, but, you know, what I don't know is let's have this call, this podcast in a year and I have no idea what the distribution will be, you know, across those chains.
And, you know, it will depend a lot on their own interesting success that are based on.
very different variables that I don't control.
But if one ecosystem jumps and then they have a bit more, I don't know, institution coming there and those institutions are looking for more Wall Street type product as opposed to, I don't know, meme coins and whatever, then you may see, at least for us, a bit more traction in that specific L1 for a specific product.
So yeah, it'd be interesting to see.
And, you know, here I won't be able to make any prediction.
I have no clue.
got it got it what actually speaking of meme coins i one thing that stood out to me and again you guys seem to be very early in what you're doing despite having 100 million already it seems like you know you guys are positioning for for the long term here and like you said on the year you don't know what it's going to look like solana only appears once in this list with less than a million tvl which is surprising to me given that solana to me really positions itself as a place for digital assets um does that does that i don't know if you're you're able to comment on specific chains Not really, but I think Solana are very close partners of us.
They were at some point higher, and I think it moves a lot based on, you know, the market evolution.
So I wouldn't read too much into this, not at all.
Okay, okay.
What's the vision then for Kayo?
Because you guys are 100 million TVL, you've got these four very institutional funds so far.
Is that the roadmap to continue to add these?
You mentioned art and all that kind of stuff before, but clearly this is the starting place.
What do the next couple of years look like for a platform like yours?
I think because we have very institutional shareholders and very classified DNA.
We will be the best, I think, at convincing any asset manager on the planet that they should work with us.
But I'm not going to go and call every single asset manager in the world and say, why don't you tokenize with us?
It's going to be, again, based on demand.
So we're going to build both in parallel the access to the best managers out there and then our distribution channel.
And I think, you know, distribution, we have all of us as an industry try to broaden into Web2.
And so I'm thinking, you know, B2B2C with mobile operator, with, you know, platform who have thousands, hundreds of thousands of clients that don't have access to those products and try to understand what they're looking for.
It could be, and I'm making this up, but a Middle East platform that needs a Sharia compliant product.
You know, then I can find an asset manager that has this product and work with them to tokenize that and offer their phones in a tokenized format on any layer one, you know, to this.
to this distributor.
So that is the vision.
I want to bring the best phone out there and match them with a distribution network that today is not available to those phones and for those end users, products that they will never think they could have access to.
Because today, that's where I still sometimes struggle with the tokenization of equities.
You know, anybody with an interactive broker account or Revolut account has access to equities.
Yes, not 24-7, but frankly, I'm not sure I want to trade on a Sunday night, you know.
But, you know, some people may want to do that.
But, you know, I think really the value of tokenization is bringing hard-to-access product to a category of people who didn't have access to that product.
And so that's the whole vision that we had from the get-go.
And that's what we want to deliver on.
So take, you know, the next...
venture capital fund, the next private equity fund, the next hedge fund that is having a significant traction and interest.
And then we are going to go and speak to them.
We have access to those guys based on, you know, the network that we have.
And we'll work with them to see if they have any appetite to tokenize their product.
And we'll try to convince them or explain to them the distribution network that they can tap into with this.
And that's, I think, where the magic happens, you know, and that's where we're going to grow our TVL.
with our partners, the different layer ones and our shareholders, obviously, and try to make this a success.
And I think there's a lot of tailwind for that because if you take a look at what's happening, especially driven in the US by the regulation, Genusa, Clarity Act, Stablecoin Act, and so you're going to have a lot of fiat that is going to come on chain.
Once the dollar are on-chain, what are you going to do?
You're not going to go back and invest in analog products.
But again, a lot of those investors are unlikely to go and get comfortable investing in pure crypto assets.
They may want to look at digital products from names that they recognize.
You know, BlackRock, Hamilton Land, all of those guys, they would recognize those names and hopefully look to invest in those via us.
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What is it?
Well, that's a really good point.
What is the process then for getting these types of assets on chain?
Like, is this the BlackRock one?
Like, obviously, BlackRock is involved.
Yeah, they are.
We're working with one of them.
Yeah, okay.
So some are involved, some are not involved.
They're obviously fully aware.
In that specific case, we work with one of their distributors because working directly with BlackRock is not the easiest, but they are fully aware of that.
But all of the other funds that we have tokenized, we've worked directly with the asset managers.
So with Hamilton Lane, with Mubadala, with Brevan O'Rourke.
We have two ways to do that.
We either set up what's called a feeder fund.
Think of it as, you know, SPV in a way.
Or we directly tokenize the master fund and there are pros and cons in both in terms of time to market and benefits.
So we've done both and certain managers prefer the tokenization of a feeder fund, others prefer the master fund directly.
So the process is simple.
Let's say in the case of an asset manager that we are working directly with, we sit down with their compliance guys, we sit down with their product guys, guys, we understand what phone they would like to tokenize.
And then it's a process that we have streamlined all the way to four or five weeks to bring a phone on chain.
Typically, those managers have no specific view around which layer one.
So we work with them and you know, most of them, they tend to select the ones that they know the most or Ethereum.
But we explain to them that in certain cases, they may be demanding in another ecosystem.
And then typically they want to assess that.
They may want to speak directly to that foundation and we facilitate that process.
And then once we've done the, you know, mostly compliance work and, you know, legal work that we have to do, as opposed to a technical integration of the foundation are in place, then that fund can be added to our platform.
And like I said, right now, you have then to go and KYC and onboard with us in order to access those funds.
But in the background, we've been working for a couple of months now to have a retail wrapping offering for some of those songs, not all of them.
So what it means is then you and me with as low as $100, you may be able to access those products on a non-KYC basis.
via distributors.
Here distributors could be crypto exchange, could be retail apps, could be other intermediaries.
So always you'll have to be KYC at some point by somebody.
But the goal is to work with people who already have KYC clients and then distribute through them.
Do you see a world where people don't have to KYC to buy this stuff?
Not with the products that we have.
That's for sure.
And I don't want this.
I want to know at some point somebody should have a record on what.
But again, I love crypto for different reasons and certain products don't have to be KYC, then that's okay, but not what we're building.
What do you think will be the largest over time deterrent?
for wall street kind of moving this way because we cover this a lot on the show we we have a lot of bitwise and everybody you know comes and tells us about the conversations they're having similar conversations that you're having and it's clear there's a lot of appetite you know fidelity is hiring an entire digital asset uh uh department and uh you're seeing all this adoption but what outside of outside of things like clarity and an actual policy is there like what is the hold up what what would be the largest kind of reason that you would hold back a lot of assets from coming on chain?
It's a great question.
And I mean, we've all been sitting here in crypto for the last five years thinking the tipping point is that here, the tipping point is that here.
It's yet to happen to a certain extent.
So I don't have the exact answer to that.
I think a lot of it has been solved, at least from a regulatory standpoint, and that's a massive hurdle that has been lifted.
No, it's more of a nuts and bolts of building the technology and upgrading the system within those traditional institutions.
And we've tech people who are working for 90% of their time on running the bank and they have no clue how to transform their infrastructure to start to go on chain.
So I think what we're going to see is some of the very large banks will have their in-house team.
You've mentioned Fidelity and they have...
hundreds of millions of dollars to allocate to that and they will build their own infrastructure and run that.
But for a lot of smaller banks, smaller asset managers, they won't have the capacity to do that.
And I don't think they'll necessarily want to work with a competitor's platform, you know, because of, you know, transparency and different reasons.
So they'll go and, you know, ping us or we'll ping them and work with a more independent partner that supports their ability to go on-chain.
But...
I still think one of the biggest hurdles will be a cultural issue.
If you are a sales guy in a bank, you've been selling your traditional product, get your commission and whatever ways those people get incentivized, and suddenly you have a platform that are coming through that are ripping this off, making the fees much lower, the transparency visible to almost anybody like what you were showing on our website.
good luck trying to see that level of granularity in in TradFi and Web2.
So I think a lot of the cultural switch will take a very long time.
And I'm hoping, you know, as new generation of investors who have been more involved in crypto from the very beginning are looking for diversification, they will ask for this level of transparency, they will ask for on-chain type of product, and then those traditional financial institutions will have no choice.
But unfortunately, I think It's not going to move in at the pace that we were hoping.
I think it still is a long journey.
And that's why for Kayo, we're there for the long run.
You know, the investors that we have are extremely committed to this.
It's Laser Digital, which is Nomura, one of the largest Japanese banks.
You know, we have Tether, we have Constansys, we have Brevin Award, we have Further Venture.
Those guys are not looking to make a quick buck.
They know this is a long journey.
That, I think, is the right way to think about tokenization.
In what scenario do you see a normal consumer, let's say somebody who is just...
looking to add to their 401k or whatever, whatever your investment vehicle is in your country, your long-term retirement vehicle.
And they're like, listen, investment advisor, I want you to take my half million dollars that I have for retirement.
And I want you to put it into, I only want on-chain funds.
You know what I mean?
Like in what does that, is that how you see it happening?
Or is it just that these funds, they will just be on-chain?
with much better fees and or even the investment advisor doesn't exist.
It's just people just learn how to use these types of platforms or some other kind of, you know, aggregate for them.
Oh man, that's an excellent question.
I don't know.
I think it's such a hard one.
I think what we'll see is the current people who are about to retire will never ask that question from their investment advisor.
Not a chance in a million years, you know.
Their kids may.
You know, their kids may say, well, hold on, how come you are paying, you know, whatever, 2% and still have no clue what you invested in?
You know, look, this is on my mobile phone.
I can see, you know, the transparency on the products I'm investing in and so on.
And maybe that journey will take a lot of time, you know, but you'll start to see maybe...
some of the boomers have a retire and look and get pressure from, you know, the kids were saying, Well, you know, why are you paying so much into an advisor where you can get all of that at a much cheaper price point on chain?
But I don't know, I'm more speculating here, maybe that doesn't happen at all.
And you know, the journey will be different.
So but it's an excellent question.
I think it will take time, that's for sure.
It will take a long time.
Yeah, it will take a long time.
I want to talk about Kyo, we still have time.
You guys just announced a fundraise, correct?
I guess it kind of developed this vision.
Tell me about that.
Yeah, so we started about three years ago, and to date we've raised close to almost $20 million on 19, through two rounds, the more recent strategic round we brought in, and very thankful for that, Tether, who is backing our vision of you know, more fiat on chain means we need more high quality digital product to invest in and they fully understand what we're building.
So they're backing us and then Systemeventure, which is part of ConsenSys is also backing us.
They are very much big believer in tokenization.
And then some of our most of our historical shareholders have also invested.
So Forever Venture is one of the largest VC in the Middle East, backed by a sovereign wealth fund.
We have Laser Digital, which is number one.
We have Breven Award.
So We're very fortunate, like I said, to have long term investors on our cap table.
We understand the challenge of...
We understand that technology is relatively solved.
It's almost solved right now.
It's like there's no edge in building a new gateway in the new chain and that's very significant demand.
There's no edge in building a more sophisticated kind of a platform to tokenize.
But what we understand is that distribution is key and credibility is key.
You want to go and speak to...
you know, the Fidelities of the world, the BlackRock of the world, and not coming with, you know, a very product heavy lens.
So if you are two crypto guys in a garage and a Panama Foundation, I don't think you'll be able to convince one of those large asset managers to work with you.
We can, you know, we, you know, I've been 20 years in finance and my co-founder as well.
So we understand that space and that's the journey we're on.
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Got it.
I mean, hey, listen, man, I feel like a lot of crypto chains that are big today probably started as two guys in a garage.
So if there's two guys in a garage trying to do what you're doing, then you have more credibility.
Totally.
But Apple started as two guys in a garage or one guy in a garage.
So no, shout out.
People still work.
I don't know anybody still works in the garage, actually.
I feel like that level of entrepreneurship is gone.
That's from like our generation or generation before us.
Very cool, man.
I guess this will, is this a series A?
Just maybe kind of illuminate how the VC part works for us.
Yeah, we've done a C.
This is more like a pre-TG run, I call it strategy run.
So our goal is to have at some point a token out there.
I won't comment too much on that, but we are full on-chain believers and we believe the governance of digital asset managers should be on-chain.
Got it.
Okay.
That's great.
That's great.
Well, best of luck to you guys.
Last question for you, Olivier, is what's your view on the market?
We always talk about that every day on this show.
We're more of a market show these days, and we love talking to builders, entrepreneurs like yourself.
But you say you're a crypto guy.
It seems like you're a bit of a degen because you did say that part of you wishes you could build stuff that didn't need KYC.
So tell me, give us your kind of broad scope view on the market in terms of everything that's going on these days.
Crypto specifically, be crypto specific.
Yeah, absolutely.
I remain super bullish, you know, I mean, I've been in that space for a very long time.
I remain super bullish.
Yeah, it goes in cycle.
I think what we'll see is once Bitcoin break out of its current range, a lot of the, you know, at least top five, top ten coins, I won't comment which one I have, not necessarily a specific view.
will reaccelerate.
And what we've seen as well with Hypernative is the importance of having a business model where you're not just, you know, maybe from the previous cycle, community driven and hope that, you know, price appreciation will come from your community pushing that.
People want to see real business model on chain.
And that's where I think the project, the apps, the protocol that are building along those lines will be.
more successful.
So I'm much more differentiated now when I invest in projects, but I remain super bullish.
And I think it's driven by what I see from, you know, the tailwinds of regulation, institutionalization, and so on.
But again, doesn't mean that your bag of memcoin will do well, that I'm not sure, but definitely your high quality, you know, project should be should be actually doing okay.
as the market continues to clean up and improve.
And obviously we've been all suffering for the last couple of months since 2010, but I think we're getting out of that cycle now.
You're obsessed with meme coins.
I can tell.
I can tell you've spent time in the trenches by how many times you referred to meme coins and how you shouldn't expect your meme coins to go back up.
It's clearly self-referential.
100%, unfortunately.
No, but honestly, you're saying that 20 years in TradFi gives you credibility.
In my eyes, that gives you credibility.
It's that and then also that you have...
you've come and tried the street food of crypto and had food poisoning.
So that's how I see that.
Olivier, great to have you on, man.
Thanks for breaking this down for us and best of luck in the future.
Thank you, really appreciate you having me here.
Thank you.
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