# Iran Escalation, SpaceX Valuation, and AI Ethics Battles

**Podcast:** Pivot
**Published:** 2026-03-31

## Transcript

Support for the show comes from Retool.
Too many companies run critical operations on duct tape spreadsheets, Slack workflows, and whatever else they could cobble together.
Not because they want to, because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog.
That's where Retool comes in.
Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need.
Prompt something like build me a revenue dashboard for our Salesforce data.
And Retool actually builds it on your company's data in your cloud with enterprise security built in.
Go to retool.com/slash pivot.
We all need to retool how we build software.
Support for the show comes from CoreWeave.
Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible.
And at the center of it all is CoreWeave.
Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs.
CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before.
CoreWave is the essential cloud for AI.
Ready for anything, ready for AI.
To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWeave.com/slash ready for anything.
Support for this show comes from MongoDB.
If you're a developer stuck fixing bottlenecks instead of building the next big thing, then you need MongoDB.
Mongo is the flexible unified platform that gets out of your way.
It's acid compliant, enterprise ready, and built to ship AI apps fast.
And it's trusted by so many of the Fortune 500 with their most critical workloads.
Developers have a word for that kind of reliability.
Actually, five words.
It's a great fucking database.
Start building at MongoDB.com/slash build.
He's got a I'm gonna tell him he can't talk that much.
God limit his talking.
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.
And I'm Scott Galloway.
Scott, I have officially left your apartment in New York State.
Oh, you moved into your new place.
Yes, I bought a small apartment in Brooklyn in Park.
I have to say I enjoyed it.
We went this weekend, we went to Ikea for 17 hours, which was fun, actually.
Bought a range of inexpensive furniture, and it's very lovely, actually.
We we we it's very nice.
I miss you, but I have to move on.
Our relation, our housing relationship.
So do you know how many times I've been to Brooklyn in 25 years?
How many?
Twice, both times to be the to go to the sew house there.
There's no reason to ever live the island unless you're going to have care looking for.
Okay.
We're very well known in Park Slope, I can tell you that.
I can't stop.
I don't doubt it.
It was crazy.
Jesus Christ.
I can't even imagine.
Hi Kara, welcome to Brooklyn.
I know.
That's exactly what happened.
It was nice.
Two other things, let me just say, two other phenomena.
So I have all these books that I get for my podcast, and probably you do too, right?
I I I cannot get rid of them here.
I put them out on the stoop in Brooklyn, they were gone.
Like I have to say, I get all these free books and they're good books and they're all interesting.
But I have to I like the whole culture of people walking by and taking things and giving away things.
It's really nice.
And so we are now officially semi- not we don't live there, but it's nice.
And anyone can stay.
All you listeners can stay at my Brooklyn place.
No, you can stay.
I extend an invitation to you, Scott Galloway.
Um, gonna happen because it has IKEA furniture, that's why.
Uh you went to IKEA.
Yeah, I love IKEA.
Why do you like IKEA?
Uh, because it's because actually it's fine, it's it's perfectly nice stuff.
If you get the the more the slightly more expensive stuff there, it's fine.
And it's I have really nice furniture in where I live, and I just don't need more furniture.
Uh when I was there, the IKEA sales lady wanted to have sex with me, but all I wanted was a was one night stand.
Ah I don't believe you have an IKEA joke at the ready.
I have to say, Ikea is like it works really well.
It's in Red Hook, and uh it was nice.
The kids have a good time.
We put them in small land.
You know everything has the weird names at IKEA.
I don't.
I don't think I've ever been to an IKEA.
Oh, okay.
In any case, there's a place to put children while you shop.
It's like so and then the then you have meatballs at the end.
It's really Swedish meatballs.
It's the whole thing is fantastic.
And and pear soda.
It's it's very pleasant.
So anyway, it's a phenomenon.
It's um I still was making furniture all night long.
I don't know.
Ikea for me is is like uh a porn video, and that is I'll never be able to do the same thing at home.
It just it looks different in IKEA than in my own home when I try it.
Yeah, well, I'm a lesbian, so I can assemble the things well.
I'm very good with the case.
Yeah, I was gonna say you're are you building a wood canoe in your living room?
I did.
I have to build this bed.
I gave up on it.
Woodwork.
Yeah.
The other thing I did, and I want to recommend I went to my friend Sean Hayes' show called The Unknown.
And it's a little bit about internet.
It's a little bit about it's really good.
It's a one-man show.
Uh it's a monologue, I think it's by David Cale, I think it's a playwright.
What a wonderful show.
I have to we had a really nice time in the world.
Is this Broadway?
It's off Broadway.
He started off Broadway.
Yeah.
My Mexican friend uh builds all my IKEA furniture.
I call him my instruction.
I call him my instruction Manuel.
Oh my God.
Just okay.
All right.
Anyway.
At least upgrade to at least upgrade to West Elm.
I have West Elm stuff.
I have I have uh the other one positioned the brand of West Elm.
It's one of my first clients.
I like West Elm, actually.
They make I have several.
I have some I have a West Elm bed here and I love it.
I have several.
You know what the strategy was?
Well, I'm patting myself on the back.
I my first strategy engagement uh out of business school was helping position the old Navy brand.
And it was pretty easy.
80% of the gap for 50% of the price.
And so my big insight at William Sonoma five years later was West Elm, 80% pottery barn for 50% of the price.
Oh interesting.
It's nicer than Pottery Barn.
I think Potter Barn's sort of lost.
West Elm is the fastest zero to a billion dollar brands in history have been that axiom.
80% of the county industry leader for 50% of the price, whether it's Southwest or Old Navy or West Elm.
It's a West Elm's a little nicer.
And then there's the one room and board, which is nice.
I get a lot of things.
Well, they do a great job.
They do a beautiful.
I get a lot of their stuff.
Not really as successful financially, though.
Yeah.
And then what's the one that has uh the big air couch, the big Well, restoration hardware.
Restorant hardware.
I have a I that's that has that has all of my stuff in San Francisco.
I got restoration.
Well, Gary, uh, I would I mean I used to be very into merchandising because I was in that business.
So the greatest, in my opinion, the greatest merchant of the last 20 years is is uh Gary Friedman, a CEO of Restoration Hardware.
Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting cloud couch.
It's a cloud couch.
Uh he and I he and I are friends.
He he gave me a tour of their space in um in the meat packing district.
They it was really interesting in the restaurant, which I think does more dollars per square foot than the the store combined, but they don't serve alcohol because he said he wanted a safe place for women to come and just hang out, and then wouldn't when people drink alcohol, they get rowdy and obnoxious, which I thought was interesting.
So it doesn't serve hard alcohol.
Oh well, they have a they have a beautiful store in in Manhattan and like go to lunch there.
It's nice.
Anyway, I have different levels of furniture depending on the house.
San Francisco's all restoration hardware.
Anyway, all right, we'll move on.
We love furniture.
The furniture privilege people.
I went to IKEA.
I assembled furniture this weekend.
Anyway, before we get to the news, uh this weekend, around eight million people.
One thing I didn't do, I didn't go to a No Kings rally over because I was assembling a key of furniture, over 3,300 events around the world.
I went to the last one, I think.
Over 200,000 people attended the flagship rally in Minnesota.
Incredible crowds.
Some signs uh stand out, including you can't bum your way out of the Epstein Files, my country went to hell, and all I got was this lousy ballroom and balls for grabs with a sign that said free balls for Republicans.
They were I love the signs.
I you know, it was really interesting.
A lot of people, eight million people.
That's a lot of people.
Was there one in London?
I'm in London, although they did have a protest here, which I did, which I didn't go to, but I don't know.
I did what all lazy people do to Virtue Signal.
I reposted Yeah.
I reposted other people sacrificing their Saturday.
I thought, no, it was uh they looked wonderful and festive.
I thought Bruce Spring, I thought they were also did the messaging was excellent.
I thought it was affordability, it's about no kings.
It was everybody has all the progressives have modulated in a way that I think is very attractive.
Very they're moving into the James Talerico version of Democrats, right?
The hey, what are we gonna hear to help you?
Affordability, we want a thing.
And the one thing I really like, there was a picture, a beautiful picture of Joan Baez and uh Jade Fonda that was with gray hair together.
It was gorgeous.
I thought that was I just thought it was visually very attractive.
I think there is a real movement of people of all these elections happening and people are so sick of feeling bad and feeling like uh everything's a grift.
It just feels it there's definitely a tide.
Um I don't know if these protests help, but I like them.
I think they're supposedly.
Well, first off, it just feels and I say this all the time, but my buddy Dan Harris, action absorbs anxiety.
It feels really good to do things with other people.
And Timothy Snyder says that protests start to build an infrastructure for organization and taking names, and people get invested in it, so they want to turn out again and they want to register people to vote.
It also supposedly the supposedly there's a tipping point where if you get three and a half percent of the population to demonstrate, that usually connotes change.
So this wasn't that, because that would be, I think about 11 or twelve million people, just some data here.
And uh Saturday's turnout was nine million.
So it's building.
And what's interesting or the most interesting piece of data, I thought, is that two-thirds of the RSVPs came from outside major urban centers, including conservative leaning states such as Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, South Dakota, and the United States.
Yeah.
Those protests.
That takes something for people to do things like that there.
Like the villages.
Did you see all the little villages carts?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was kind of when what is traditionally very conservative.
Um and also the kind of the flagship was at uh uh Minneapolis, where almost a quarter of a million people turned out.
Uh Springsteen performed, you mentioned Joan Baez and Jane Fonda, Maggie Rogers, and Senator Barry.
So just some context.
The women's march in January 2017, previously considered the largest single-day protest in U.S.
history, drew an estimated uh 3.3 to 56 5.6 million people, so this was bigger.
The BLM protests in June of 2020 drew an estimated 15 to 26 million people, but over several weeks, but that was spread across multiple days.
So if the nine million uh person turnout estimate holds, Saturday's protest would be the largest single-day demonstration in American history.
People are tired and they want to do something.
And it's not more it's not a hopelessness.
If I went to the women's when I actually I took my sons to that, I made them wear pussy hats.
Well, that's the way it goes.
Anyway, we had actually had a wonderful time.
I like doing things like that with my kids because they can see things in action.
Um okay, moving on.
Uh President Trump says the U.S.
is in serious discussions with the new regime in Iran, but he's also threatening to completely destroy key energy sites if a deal is not reached.
That's a nice way to negotiate.
This is the Pentagon preparing for what could be a weeks of ground operations in Iran, according to the Washington Post.
Total number of U.S.
troops in the Mideast are now 50,000, around 50,000.
That is insane amounts of people, roughly 10,000 higher than typical levels.
Uh the Iranian military is warning that any U.S.
occupation would lead to captivity, dismemberment, and disappearance.
It is worrisome with all those people there.
There's always something bad gonna happen.
And as the war drags on, markets are sliding down with Nasdaq and Dow falling into correction territory last week, and the SB down about seven percent.
Markets are sort of a trailing indicator of some of this stuff, I think.
But um, I think it it's creates a jittery feeling just because of the shifting back and forth.
And if you noticed a lot of Trump people, and especially Marco Rubio and J.D.
Vance were not on any of the Sunday shows.
They're avoiding all the cabinet members are avoiding the Sunday shows.
I had a really interesting interview before I went to New York with Tom Tillis, which I think you should all listen to.
It's up today.
I mean, he was expressing great distaste for this whole action.
Um we had a he's a obviously very conservative senator from North Carolina.
He's leaving Congress, so he feels like he can say whatever he wants, which he did.
Um so what do you think's happening here, Scott?
I mean, the back and forth and the people are sort of trying to get out of the tr Trump blast zone on this situation.
I'm sorry to use that metaphor, but to say it's complicated is an understatement, but I'm one of the people that would argue that we've been at war with Iran for the last 47 years.
The first act of this regime in 1979 was to take the Americans hostage.
The question is, is this escalation in the war was it a smart idea?
And I think if it had gone 72 hours in terms of getting some coordination with European allies and even Gulf allies, you could have potentially declared victory and really had a win.
Um but this is kind of the definition of a quagmire, and that is I'm not sure at this point he has any choice but to put boots on the ground.
Because I and I had Senator Warner on my podcast.
I would argue at this point, Kara, Iran is winning.
That the that the RGC has shown that they can they can push back the you know the great Satans of Israel and the United States.
And what is at the end of the day, I think this is an enormous failure of uh our intelligence director, uh Tulsi Gabbard, to not contemplate or consider a scenario where they cut off the Straits of Hormuz.
Well, she probably advised that.
She didn't want to go.
She's the America First Greg.
Her advance are on the maybe not so much kind of group.
Yeah, but you okay, but they sh they're they're claiming now that they're gonna try and work with their allies.
We're all saying, fuck you, if you're gonna be this much of a prick to us.
But they've they're doing shit in reverse order.
They should have secured the Straits of Hormones before doing this.
Of course.
They should have contemplated, well, what happens if they start firing Shahad drones that cost $20,000 and it costs us two million to shoot them down?
What if they start firing them into Dubai?
So uh some basic scenario planning and intelligence from the people trying I mean I think he got that.
I think some guy told him to do this.
Like I think the the the Yeah, but there's no leadership.
That it doesn't matter if it doesn't bubble up.
Which is what Tillis said.
Tillis was like, I he always tries very hard not to insult Trump himself, but he's like the advisors.
And he's particularly, for example, went after Stephen Miller on immigration.
He particularly goes after the advisors.
He's like, he's either you have an advisor who's stupid and just like tells them dumb things, or you have an advisor who knows better who says nothing, right?
Who doesn't who tries to like assuage the president versus and he goes, either way, his advisors suck, you know.
And I think that's true, but at some point it's treating Trump like a toddler.
Oh, we managed to keep him this or that.
So it's a complicated situation there.
Is this guy wants to do what he wants to do now, and he has advisors who are either too weak to tell him the truth or tell him the truth and then get fired or slapped for it, kind of stuff.
I don't know.
It's a problematic situation.
It's not certainly not the group of rivals that Lincoln had.
Well, but a lot of people would argue on the opposite side that basically Secretary Rubio is the shadow president making these decisions, and so is his son-in-law Kushner.
So, you know, which is it?
Is he listening to people or is he not?
Because uh it it to me, this is just such a striking intelligence failure to not do some basic scenario planning around what if.
And we are now in a position of weakness where I mean, the general, not the consensus, but when I speak to people in the intelligence community, there's a feeling, okay, the most obvious next step here is that he feels to safe face because the RGC has said, fuck you, you can pretend you're talking to us.
We're not talking back.
Right, you're not sending the president.
We anti we did scenario planning.
We just we anticipated what if our leadership is killed and they have dispersed military and executive authority out to the various regions.
So they're like, cut off the head of the snake.
That's okay.
We'll the snake's gonna keep moving.
So there was no basic uh essential basic scenario planning here.
And the general feeling is that he will land troops potentially on Carg Island and then try and secure CARG and do a deal to exchange carg for opening the Straits of Hormuz.
Right.
I know, but that's what we had before.
Like one of the things that I'm not arguing it's a we're in a good spot.
One of the things when I talked to Tillis, and when I also talked to Warner, is that the same thing you're talking about, these drones and everything else, like the word obliterate, that he obliterated it months ago, the nuclear facilities, but now he's obliterating more.
And, you know, tell us who's sort of hat seems to have run out of fucks, was like, yeah, we obliterated again, and then we obliterated it.
Like, you know, that's what you can't.
That's like uh to say you obliterate, all right.
So essentially what you have to make fun of Trump, I believe.
That's what was happening there.
Again, the the key word in all of this coming out of Ukraine and now this war is asymmetry.
And that is wars and shaping of you know, energy routes and ability to solve things without when diplomatic means have failed, have been based on very expensive platforms and technology no one else had access to.
It has gone the entirely other way.
And now you can essentially build a drone for $20,000 with a two-stroke engine similar to what's in a motorcycle.
And that's like to say you're going to obliterate it, if if we all of a sudden declare war on Texas and most of the Southwest, actually, which Iran is bigger than, and said, okay, how do you find every little factory that's pull pushing pulling together lawnmowers?
That's what you're up against.
You're not going to be able, and then they launch 40 of these things and the defense systems get confused.
And all you need, it's similar, similar to the Department of Homeland Security or the FBI, they have to stop every terrorist attack, right?
And the notion that just one ship is set on fire or the Burj Khalifa is taken down in Dubai.
That's all they need.
And what's actually stopping this, and you can imagine if you're transporting tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of a product called oil through a dangerous area, there needs to be insurance against that payment, against that that substance arriving at its destination.
In other words, there's cross-party collateralization in insurance.
And right now, I would argue what's actually holding up the Straits of Hormos is I don't believe any insurance company is willing to insure these tankers right now.
Yeah.
I don't know what I would do if I was running these companies.
Anyway, we'll see what happens.
It's still confusing and it's gone on far too long this confusing.
And I think that's the real problem.
He's really stuck in a a quagmair.
A quagmar, this is a deputy painted in a corner painting.
If he had after 72 hours said we've we've further diminished their ability to fund proxies.
We have substantially denigrated their launch capabilities, we have we have made the the the leadership infrastructure much more insecure and diminished it vastly we are now going to work with our Gulf allies and European nations to try and maintain a sense of security and keep it in a box.
He probably could have declared at some level victory.
But Scott chaos follows this guy.
The chaos is his his brand right now.
Anyway uh agreed uh let's move on the boys are uh really back together speaking of which you know speaking of chaos Elon Musk probably joined a phone call with President Trump and India's Prime Minister Modi about the Strait of Hormuz.
It's unclear whether Musk spoke on the call and neither government mentioned his presence in the official readouts.
Meanwhile, as we all know, SpaceX is preparing to launch the largest IPO of all time, report he targeting a $1.75 trillion dollar valuation, which is kind of a lot over their revenues.
But okay, fine that's it's a must company musk reportedly wants to have investors come to SpaceX to see facilities and rocket launches.
He does that a lot he's doing that with robotics too, which are pretty cool.
Um the company is also considering limiting share sales by early investors, uh preferential treatment for investors in Musk's other companies, which is why they suck up to him so that's why they buy Twitter so they can get into this and reserving a large portion of the shares for individual investors.
That's fine.
That's great.
Speaking of making amends with his enemies, text released as part of Musk's lawsuit against open AI showed that Zuckerberg tested Musk, saying, Looks like Doge is making progress.
I've got our teams on alert to take down contact doxing or threatening the people in your team.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
Oh, he does want a content moderate.
Musk hearted the message and then asked Zuckerberg would be open to bidding on open AI with him, which the two seem to have spoken about on the phone.
I mean, these people say one thing in public and another in private, but talk first about um the phone call, then the IPO and you know, Mark Zuckerberg will talk to anybody if it means a deal.
So that's what I think about that.
I I don't have a problem with the president inviting people into a call that he thinks can help achieve the objectives, whether it's someone who has domain expertise, whether Musk is the right person to have the on the call, but I think the president should bring to bear any resources he thinks is going to result in a more productive conversation.
Sure, I guess.
And Modi is probably wants, probably wants uh, you know, Starlink, or maybe Modi and Musk have a pre-existing relationship.
Who knows?
Or maybe, like you said, he's just showing them off.
The staggering thing for me is uh I can't wait for the S1 because the target valuation of 1.8 trillion dollars, this company, you know, i i it's projected or generated roughly 15 to 16 billion and about 8 billion in profit in 2025.
That means at the IPO it's trading at 109 times trailing revenue.
That's a must company, right?
Are you going to do like you did with WeWork?
Well but that's more than pound oh no no this is a real company.
It might be overvalued but we work as it's scaled lost more money.
This is this is a company with un an unbelievable product and MOS.
It's but two things can be true at once.
Is it an unbelievable company with I think probably the widest Motes in the business world right now?
Absolutely for now.
But everyone feels like a distant number two.
Like who's the number two here I don't know I think people will catch up in this I think I mean it's going to look everyone said no when it catch Tesla everyone caught Tesla and it was a lot faster than we thought right manufacturing manufacturing an EV versus launch capability.
No I just I think you think someone's going to catch up I think Bezos is working on it.
I think a lot of countries, there's fr the ones happening in Europe.
I think, look, it's not going to be the only one, and everyone's going to be like, why are we, you know, it's sort of like the Lockheed problem, right?
I think a lot of people think it's an attractive thing.
Ninety percent of launches.
I get it it.
It was early.
They are the member when he said it.
They are the only company in the world right now that is capable of putting humans into space.
Yep.
Yep, I get it.
When you look at when you look at space and whether it's energy or connectivity or s or space, military or space defense, they're all for a while gonna have to come through SpaceX at the same time.
No question.
At the same time, is it worth 109 times revenue?
I don't think it's a good idea.
Tesla is declining precipitously, and yet it still trades at a ridiculous.
But Musk owns roughly 42% of SpaceX.
So this IPO could make him the first recorded trillionaire in history.
And on Calci, the odds that he'll become the a trillionaire this year are 71%.
So there's almost a three in four chance, according to a lot of people, that Musk is about to become the trillionaire.
And that is, in my view, really uh troubling.
Uh, because I think as a species, we need guardrails, and money uh directly translates to power.
And I don't think any unelected person should have this much power.
Yeah, he definitely put pushes himself into every single aspect of our lives, you know, in some way, and he'll do it more so politically.
Well, with a trillion dollars, say he takes, say he says, okay, I'm I'm gonna die soon and I want to be worth five trillion, and I'm gonna, I wanna I want to decide who the next president is.
I'm gonna take three percent of my net worth, which would be thirty billion dollars.
There's there's evidence that he had an influence on Trump's election with 250 million.
So with But he didn't in Wisconsin with 25, that's a lot in that state.
Like I think it's a mixed bag.
When he shows up, it's a lot of money.
When he shows up it's a lot of yeah no you know I think Citizens United and a guy being worth a trillion dollars agreed is really scary.
It also has effects of if this guy is he's like the Soros or he's the Soros of the right essentially now, right?
On some level.
And I do think it has a negative impact and alerts people to this situation that he I don't think money buys everything.
He's he's failed in a number of areas like Doge, he's failed in like he fails quite a bit, which of course is his his brand is I fail and then I succeed.
I think in a close election which most presidential elections are he could absolutely swing it.
He already has.
He already has had more impact than any individual in recent history especially killing people across the globe with Doge.
I mean again I I it'll we'll see what happens here.
But they certainly it's gonna be the blockbuster IPO and it will be overvalued by a lot given you know they'll have a lot of sh skis to cover, and then they'll have the money to do so, right?
To to sort of create that moat even more incredible.
It's an incredible.
I won't even call it a product because what it really is, it's global infrastructure.
Um, they have the largest commercial satellite constellation.
It's no, and which by the way is no longer NASA, it's SpaceX.
And as of May 2025, Starlink controlled more than 7600 satellites or two-thirds of all active satellites in orbit.
The majority of new satellites launched globally in late 2024 were Starlink.
And SpaceX plans to scale to 42,000 satellites.
That's up six fold.
Yep.
He controls global global information system.
Making Starlink the de facto broadband backbone in space and projections for the end of 2025, 6 million subscribers and 62% of global satellite broadband revenue going to one company.
And most competitors can match SpaceX's price, cadence, or reliability.
I know Facebook has tried, uh Amazon has tried.
They're all trying.
I I I always feel like this is these are these high watermarks for these people.
But that's I I I you know, it you have to hand it to him.
I remember when he talked about it for the first time to me.
Um, that the creating this two people were talking about this at the time.
Him and oddly enough, Jerry Yang had an investment in a low, or and it's the first time I learned of it.
So I got real, I learned I I got caught up on the topic, like what it was gonna do.
But Jerry Yang had an investment in one, and it was he's the first person who talked about it, and then Musk that same year started talking about it.
This was a long, long, long time ago.
And it was really at the time, I remember thinking that no one's talking like this.
Like everyone else was like doing a fucking dating service or some dumb thing.
It comes down to some very boring numbers, and that is the cost to launch a kilogram of material, usually a satellite, into low Earth orbit.
And this is what SpaceX's Falcon Heavy Rocket can launch into a kilogram for it.
They can launch a kilogram into space for $1,500.
Arians 5G, it costs them $9,200.
Yeah.
Their electron product costs $19,000.
Their launches, SpaceX's launches occur every two to three days.
No other provider is within range.
So they are they are 6X less expensive.
Chinese certainly have capabilities here.
So anyway, it'll do that.
Do they?
I don't know that much about Chinese launches.
They do.
And so, you know, one of the things, it'll be interesting to see what happens here and what the these forces are really powerful, and he is very powerful, single person.
It does put him at great risk, too, of being a not just a not a physical target.
That's not what I'm talking about.
But when something like this happens, there's always forces against it that I think that we that will start to build.
He becomes in he becomes Soros.
He becomes Soros in a weird way.
I feel much more benign about Soros.
Well, I do too, but I'm talking about to the right, he or the Koch brothers.
Like pick pick whatever one who's or Henry Ford back in the day.
There was also a Texas billionaire, and I can't remember his name, a million years, like in the 20s, that did stuff like that.
There's a different like Sos and Cork, the Koch brothers, they were all quite philanthropic.
Well, not him.
Not Elon, for sure.
Musk is not.
And Musk is infinitely more powerful, and that's a technology that can basically decide wars.
And this is a guy who is reportedly addicted to ketamine.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
There's a lot of things are wrong.
Let me just tell you, I'm glad you're.
It does feel like a bond film, but less believable.
Kara Swisher is glad she's in Park Slope.
I'll be protected by the lesbians.
Oh, yeah, you're safe in Brooklyn.
Yeah.
A nuclear device gets detonated 500 meters above midtown.
Yeah, Brooklyn's gonna be fine.
No, what I mean is that like if he's coming after me, he's I he's not a fan of Kara Swisher.
But maybe you should make nice with that.
That's what I don't get about.
I talked to one of these guys that is building the bunker in New Zealand, a guy you know, and I'm like, you realize if shit gets real and you fire up the G650 and head to peace out to New Zealand, you realize your your pilots are gonna kill you and fuck your wife, right?
That's correct.
And the table went quiet.
I know.
I said that to one of them who had a plan.
I said, What's your plan?
I said, I'm gonna kill you and take your motorcycle out to your wife.
I was like, of course.
And then they were like, you could see them calculating how do I stop Kara from killing me.
I said, You won't see me coming.
You think uh if if if the shit goes to where these things people think it's going, this the people who die right away are the lucky ones.
I exactly.
I sometimes think that living in Washington, I feel okay about that.
Anyway, let's not go there.
Let's not go there.
Congratulations, Elon Musk, on your space egg victory.
Yeah, and your space is a very good thing.
You're still a terrible person.
No matter how rich you get, you're completely unlikable.
Anyway, I have to say one Brooklyn thing.
So I was it was there was this crazy cyber truck parked across the street.
I thought, oh, who's doing this, right?
Right where my apartment is.
And it was tricked out, it was all manner of shit on it.
No, it was some sort of commercial thing.
And, you know, there's a bunch of teen boys, and they weren't, they were just hanging out.
And I thought at first they were like admiring it.
And what was really funny is, and they weren't, they weren't sort of typical parks.
I'm trying to like they were, they were sort of sitting in front of it, like talking about it.
I'm like, I went over and I'm like, what do you think?
And I wasn't making an opinion.
They're like, what a douche.
And it was like, they were like, it was interesting because I just interviewed Louis Thoreau uh through uh who's just Oh, you you interviewed about the manosphere?
Yes, exactly.
You're beating me to my content.
I'm so sorry.
I'm way ahead of the city.
That's just fantastic.
I know it's Justin's cousin.
Um, he's also a great filmmaker.
Uh I gotta say, it was really interesting, is one point thing you pointed out, is even though a lot of these manosphere guys are really popular, there's also a whole group of young men who are like they they mock them and enjoy being in on the joke and mocking them at the same time, and also liking some of it but mocking them.
And that was going on in front of the cyber truck.
They're like, such a douche, but like whatever.
And they were so cool, and I was like, oh, I feel so much better about you after talking to these guys.
Because they were so cool.
And they also were in on the joke, and I don't know, I just felt better.
Anyway, yes, Louie.
Yes, it was great.
And we talked of you.
Oh, good.
I'm supposed to have him on.
I wrote a in my numerous mouse, I wrote a review of the of the show.
I loved it.
Yeah, it was really illuminating for me.
Can I tell you the one line I love the best of all?
I liked his, I like his interview style, and I was obsolete looking at it as a professional, how he does the interview style.
I agree.
When he's working, when he's HS, whatever, T Diddy, whatever, ticky, talkie, whatever, TikToky.
Um, he was working out and he goes, Is this your leg day?
He's British.
And the guy goes, Of course it is.
Like an asshole.
And like shows off his thigh, which is quite a a beefy thigh.
And Louie Louis Louie looks at him and he goes, You could work on those calves.
And the guy just melts.
And I was like, I love you, Louie.
Through, I love him.
He pronounced it through, unlike Justin.
They pronounce it differently.
Um anyway, it w he he has all these lines like that in there that he just eviscerates these people with kindness in a way that's really Yeah, I agree.
It's a really good show.
Anyway, uh Elon, good luck.
Elon, you can work on your calves.
Uh okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
When we come back, Anthropic scores a win against the Pentagon.
Support for this show comes from Framer.
Your website can set the tone for your brand, and it's the one touch point that every single one of your customers sees on the daily.
So if you still struggle to make small changes or simple updates, you're potentially leaving opportunities on the table.
That's why so many companies are turning to Framer, the website builder that turns your dot-com from a formality into a tool for growth.
Framer is an enterprise-grade, no-code website builder used by teams at companies like Perplexity and Miro to move faster.
With real-time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that include integrated A-B testing.
Your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your dot com from day one.
Changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with one click without help from engineering.
So whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full dot com, Framer has programs for startups, scale-ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible.
Learn how you can get more out of your dot com from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at Framer.com slash pivot for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan.
That's Framer.com slash pivot for 30% off.com slash pivot.
Rules and restrictions apply.
Support for Pivot comes from Anthropic.
Some questions are easy, but other questions are a lot more complicated than a simple yes or no.
And when you're deep in the weeds trying to find an answer to one of those problems, you want a partner who works just as hard as you do.
And Claude from Anthropic was designed to be that partner.
Cloud is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.
It's a collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you.
Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Cloud extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.
And with Cloud, you can actually build interactive tools and apps to help your workflow.
Just describe what you need from custom calculators to data visualization dashboards or even prototypes, and Cloud can cover it all without writing a single line of code.
Plus, Cloud's research capabilities go deeper than basic web search.
It can have comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of research into minutes.
Ready to tackle bigger problems?
Get started with Claude today at Cloud.ai slash pivot.
That's Claude.ai slash pivot, and check out Cloud Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode.
Cloud.ai slash pivot.
When you're ready to start your business, Northwest Registered Agent helps you do more than just file paperwork.
You get all the tools to build a real business identity from day one.
A business address, website, phone number, operating agreement, free guides, and more at no extra cost.
And with Northwest, your home address, personal email, and phone number stay private.
Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free.
Visit Northwest Registered Agent.com/slash Prof.
Free and start using free resources to build something amazing.
Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest Registered Agent.com slash Prof.
Scott, we're back.
Anthropic just scored a win in its fight with the Trump administration, obviously.
A federal judge in California granted a preliminary injunction, temporarily blocking the Pentagon's efforts to label the company a supply chain risk.
The judge didn't mince words in her ruling saying this is a classic illegal First Amendment retaliation.
Exactly.
She also called it a quote, Orwellian notion to brand an American company a potential adversary for expressing disagreement.
The Pentagon is pushing back, expected to appeal, of course, with senior official Emil Michael, another loathsome character, tweeting the ruling is a disgrace.
Oh, Emile, get over it.
The final decision in this case could still be months away.
There's also a second lawsuit pending in DC.
Anthropic won the battle.
You know, it's this it's problematic to be in this ridiculous fight.
I think it'll be over by midterms when they jack Heg out of the place.
But also a potenti and Emile too, also a potential factor.
Anthropic is really considering going public as soon as October.
That is problematic for them.
Um what do you what do you and related?
A federal judge has put on hold the $6.2 billion merger between Nextar and Techno, which would create the largest operator of local TV in the country, 69% over the former 30-some percent amount you're allowed to bring together.
The judge granted a request from Direct TV, arguing the merger violates antitrust laws.
A 14-day restraining order has been issued, and a hearing is scheduled for April 7th.
Eight attorneys general have filed a separate lawsuit.
I'm gonna just play this.
Let's listen to what our least favorite FCC chair, Brenda Carr.
Oh, I'm sorry, Brendan Carr uh had to say at CPAC.
President Trump took on the fake news media, and President Trump is winning.
Look at the results so far.
PBS defunded, NPR defunded, Joy Reed gone from MSNBC, sleepy eyed Chuck Todd gone, Jim Acosta gone, John Dickerson gone, Colbert is leaving.
CBS is under new ownership, and soon enough CNN has got new ownership as well.
Boy, this guy is just not doing his job, honestly.
It's seriously, he's such a suck up to the Trump administration.
He's just explicit about it.
And he's also not very smart.
He's a moron.
Um so talk about these these next star, the the anthropic thing.
It looks like everything, as usual, Trump does.
He does something aggressive and stupid and loses in court, but he still does damage.
So talk a little, and then you can talk about Brenda if you want, but that's up to you.
Well, I'll go in reverse order.
Brendan Carr has no business in the federal government.
You're you're not supposed to go into the government to use it as a means of attacking your political enemies and freedom of speech.
Yep.
I mean, just the notion this guy makes globals look thoughtful.
And that is the uh directly calling out people who don't agree with your political views and then weaponizing government to try and get people whose views you don't agree with off the air.
That's I it's like it's just so blatant.
It's uh okay, so when we get to appoint an FCC chair, we're gonna go after Hannity.
And I mean, is that is that where we're headed?
Do you want us to start let him blather on his idiotic stuff?
I don't care.
He annoys me.
It's just not qualified to be in government.
With respect to anthropic, most major AI companies have bent the knee to the government and worked with them in any military context they want.
Last year, Google dropped its ethical guidelines that included a list of applications it would not pursue, including weapons and surveillance.
But it used to be able to do so without a problem.
Is that right?
And then they put in guidelines and then they thought they were they relaxed their guidelines.
They did relax them, but I'm saying they used to be able to say no and nobody had a problem.
They just didn't work for them.
That's all.
Well, that's the whole point of private enterprise.
You have to choose your you can fire your clients just the way consumers get to pick companies.
Companies get to pick their consumers unless it's based on sexual orientation or race or what have you.
Meta changed its policy to allow U.S.
government agencies and contractors to access its llama models for national security purposes.
OpenAI, which once stated its goal was to benefit humanity as a whole, now has multiple contracts with the military and defense contractors.
And by the way, I don't I I don't mind when companies like Palantir say we're going to work with the government on in the defense department.
I get it.
But you should also have the right to not to.
I don't.
So Anthropic is really they're the only major AI company that has drawn a public line on autonomous weapons and mass surveillance.
And now it's the only one being punished for it.
Right, but it's also winning in court, which is good, but it's still is it problematic for the IPO from your perspective?
Well, it depends on the fall IPO.
The threat to the IPO is a bunch of companies say there is, there are there are alternatives out there.
We appreciate your stand, Dario, but for the time being, we're not expanding our enterprise-wide relationship with you because we don't want to be put on a list.
Uh now, having said that, having said that, again, see above what I believe is the biggest commercial opportunity in decades is to say no.
And if you look at what's happened to Anthropic, they're now getting 70 cents on the dollar of every new AI dollar being allocated to AI from the enterprise.
So it looks as if their ability to say no and get a court to say, yeah, this is bullshit.
This is socialism, cronyism, whatever you want to call it.
I think anthropic right now, I've said that, I think anthropic at this anthropic at this moment is worth more than open AI.
What happens is the mark that people invest at is a bit illusory because if they get a preferred return, meaning no matter what happens, they get their money out sooner, or they're getting a guaranteed 17.5% return, which is what Sam is offering to private equity firms, then that $850 billion number is a bit of a head fake because as long as I'm getting 17.5%, regardless of what it goes public at, but I would argue right now, the momentum around anthropic is really strong, and the momentum around open AI is really uh is really weak.
So you think it won't affect it.
What about the nextstar thing?
Speaking of moron, Brendan.
Well, we heard, I was actually really moved.
A lot of people pushed back on my comments about how local news is a dying business.
And a lot of people push back and said, I hate to hear this.
It's a it's really important work.
And also, to be fair, you know, there's a lot of local corruption.
And the only check on it is local news.
You know, seven, I remember seven on your side.
Seven on your side.
From the hills to the seas to the San Gabriel Mountains.
I'm Jerry Dumfey.
Yeah.
Uh who by the way, Ted Baxter from Mary Teller Moore was based on.
Supposedly wasn't supposedly Jerry wasn't very smart.
Um, but he had broad shoulders and just made you feel safe.
I love local news.
I used to watch it all the time.
I love Dorian Gensler in D.C.
when I was in college.
And they also had Bruce Hurchinson and Jim Tunney and point counterpoint, where they would have, and that 27 minutes of real news was bested by the three minutes of two people arguing like crazy.
Yeah.
If it had been that era, you and I would have been a good local news team.
Like I would have predicted hell the size of can of canned tomatoes.
I I would have loved being a weatherman.
I actually took meteorology my senior year.
When I was trying to figure out what the fuck to do with my life, my senior year in college, I thought I could be a weatherman, and I took meteorology.
I definitely thought I was thinking about a weatherman.
I was gonna go in the military and you were gonna be a weatherman and hearing.
Perfect.
Perfect.
I would have been an admiral, not standing next to the president.
Yeah.
David Letterman started as a weatherman.
Anyways, but we got pushback saying how important, or I got pushback saying how important local news is.
And so I agree.
They they do a great job.
But you know, God be with you.
Um Next Star Techno.
Okay, sorry.
A judge is temporarily blocked.
What is it, a six billion dollar merger?
Yep, six billion dollars.
Between Nextstar and Tegna, which would create the largest operator.
And uh it moves the number from 30 some percent to 69%.
Yeah, two thirds.
Basically they'll have a lock on it.
Yeah.
And a U.S.
district judge, uh, I think it's in Sacramento granted uh temporary restraining order.
And siding with Director V, who argued Director EV, God, they're still around, which argued the merger violates federal antitrust laws.
And a eight state attorney generals led by California's Rob Bonta filed a separate lawsuit.
And then in the ruling, he noted that companies do not contest the merger will increase Nextar's bargaining leverage to extract higher fees.
And what does the ruling mean?
It means that Nextstar and Tegna can't uh integrate operations for 14 days.
A hearing is set for April 7th to decide whether to issue a preliminary injunction.
So, like you said, if if the merger goes through, Nextstar would own roughly 260 television stations across the country, reaching about 60% of U.S.
households.
And like you said before, it was about 39%.
And the deal does violate FCC rules limiting how many stations a single company can operate.
Well, Brenda let it through, but go ahead.
As we as we said, look, it's not a great business to be in unless you're in a swing district where they just basically start trying to advertise like crazy.
Less than half of television stations report generating any profits from news.
And last year, about 40% of surveyed local television stations reported decreasing their news budget.
And local television has lost, get this, about half of its media spending market share since since 2017.
The business has been cut in half in the last nine years.
And as of June last year, local TV accounted for just six percent of total media spend.
Digital video, on the other hand, accounts for about 50%.
So I look, I I don't I mean it we're gonna I think at some point we gotta end up with and people hate the BBC, but I like a certain amount of public funding.
But a certain amount of public funding for what I'll call local.
Yeah, local public news.
I think there's like what Craig Newmark did, I I think it's really important.
And I I don't know if it's a philanthropist, I don't know if it's government funding like we do with the BBC here with a house tax.
I don't think anyone should own 60 percent of any industry, even if they're that does feel uncomfortable.
Even if it's dying, I don't care.
They can they can eke out a good little business from it and and influence things in ways that just and they're also they're the ones that sort of sucked up to Brenda uh during the Kimmel thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I just nobody I don't want a liberal running 60 percent.
I don't want anybody.
Like I just feel like it needs to be dispersed, even if that problem is that like a lot of media, it's a bad business if you don't have monopolies.
And then it's just an okay business.
I don't I don't know, whatever.
It's I hope they stop it, but they're not going to.
But nonetheless, I hope then the industry dies.
And I hope they're just gonna be able to do that.
I'm torn.
I just wonder I just entrepreneurial local efforts going on.
And there are a lot of them, by the way, across the country in Mississippi and Baltimore.
So let's just have new stuff and forget these these compromised.
I'm sure you didn't bring up Vox.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
Would you like to discuss that?
Uh well, I d I have first off, let me say I have absolutely no insider information here.
Um I have a lot.
You have a lot.
I'm on the outside.
I'm on the inside.
Supposedly Vox is in discussions with Comcast, who is an existing shareholder to take Versant, not Comcast.
I'm sorry, Versant.
Yeah, which on DMS like Croissant.
M SNBC and CMBC to take the pods.
Then they would sell the digital business and also sell off NY Mag.
And the way I would loosely describe it is the digital stuff is a shitty business, getting worse.
Anytime you're dependent upon Amazon, Meta, and Google, eventually they will screw you and take all the margin.
Uh those are difficult businesses.
The New York magazine is a trophy asset.
What do I mean by that?
There is some crypto or hedge fund douche that will pay an extraordinary amount of money to own New York magazine.
There's a lot of people.
It does well too.
It doesn't, it's not like a big smile.
It'll trade at an irrational price.
Yeah.
Football teams make no money.
They get sold for five, seven, and ten billion dollars because some guy wants to go from being an overweight tech guy to the sexiest man in Cleveland by owning the Browns overnight.
Okay.
Can I just say it's also a really good journalistic enterprise and it does okay.
I'm sorry, I'm gonna make it.
Okay.
It w it won't go for an okay price.
I'm I'm saying it'll go for no it'll go it'll go for an irrational price.
It's a nice product.
The new owner is not gonna be into it for the cash flow or for journalism.
The new owner is gonna be someone who wants to say I own NY Mag.
It's like owning billionaires own football teams, Democrats own media companies.
It'll go for an it's a Scott will be buying it soon.
It's a no, I'm sponsoring the Met Gala.
I don't know if you heard.
And I'm taking Emily Rodakowski.
If that's what it takes, I don't even want to talk about it.
We're not discussing her because you didn't introduce yourself when you were in her presence.
I got as I got texted.
Vanessa Friedman, who I think is a wonderful writer at Dervish Fashion, texts me, it's like, Do you have any thoughts on the Met Gale and Jeff Bezos?
I'm like, tech has way too much money, way too little cool.
Fashion has way too little money, way too much cool.
This is an exchange of value.
Yeah, a good quote.
This is the most expensive midlife crisis in history.
Wouldn't it be easier for these guys just to buy a Ferrari and start banging their assistants or penis enhancement?
Versus sponsoring the Med Gala.
But anyways.
Back to New York.
Yes, it will sell.
We know this.
So NY MAG will go for an irrational price.
And then the trophy assets, and I'm not talking my own book here because ProfG is independent.
We just sell our ads through Vox, but Pivot is co-owned by UME and Vox.
Well, no, they don't own it.
We own it, and they're our partner for the next four years.
I wish you would do that correctly.
People think they own it, but they don't.
We don't.
Okay.
We own, we own it, uh, and we can't do anything with it for the next three years.
But anyways, the uh those are the assets.
Podcasting at Vox, and uh I and I'll just talk about us, uh, is growing, you know, 25 plus percent a year, maybe 30 percent a year.
And when they and when they get scale, they're amazing businesses because quite frankly, there's just not there's not a lot of cost involved in these things.
And you're seeing, and quite frankly, I also think we're benefiting from Trump to the extent that I think people are really hungry for thoughtful, I don't want to call it progressive, but a thoughtful pushback.
But we also do good at you did Warner.
I did Tillis.
We do all kinds of manner of things.
Anyways, the the the crown jewel is is the Vox Media Podcast Network.
But the the thing that makes the most sense here, which is what Jim is doing, is that when you have a conglomerate that doesn't have really obvious synergies, which quite frankly I would argue this one doesn't, people, the market looks at the shittiest asset in the portfolio, which is these digital properties, and it assigns that valuation to the entire thing.
So the disposition of assets is a creative to shareholders.
And Jim has figured that out, and he's gonna split up the company and he's gonna have a very focused podcast company that tries to industrialize podcasting, which will trade.
That's that's a great point.
Because effectively what you have is podcasts of the new TV shows with a lower means of cost of production.
But I would argue if he sells, he'll get an amazing price assume and I don't know I again I see above I have no insider information here he'll get an amazing irrational price from New York Mag he could sell the digital stuff for a dollar and just be a podcast company growing 25% a year, and it would be worth more.
So this it makes all sorts of strategic sense.
Comcast is probably Comcast, I think invested Comcast did invest, yes.
And so didn't Comcast was the initial investment.
Yes, but the investment went over to versant just so you know okay the Robert Roberts family is ready to get some money back.
They've been in this thing for 10 years, 11 years.
They've probably said okay we want some money back you need a strategy here.
I think it's going to be very interesting to see.
Yeah we'll see one of the things that I think reporters have gotten wrong about it and I I'm not going to say much more because I do know a lot is you can't one of them is like you can pick off these podcasters what's it worth because you can you actually can't once you have a good and Scott and I went out in the market and looked at a lots of people and there were a lot of them were great but a lot of them don't have stuff right and so this would be attractive to people who it's really hard to sell advertising well.
It's really hard to do distribution well it's very hard to do production well and Vox does that well and there's a couple of companies like that that do it well too there's Crooked I think does a nice job.
So it's valuable and it's not as easy to replicate as you think and getting picked off is you sign four year deals everybody and some of people have guarantees we don't happen to have that but uh because we wanted more more revenue to us um but it's harder to do than you think.
And even if you're not satisfied with the advertising sales or whether you got big or not, it's there box is one of the better ones is which is why we stayed, right?
And and and we could certainly sell our own advertising.
It's just a slog and it's hard.
It's really hard to do it well.
And so it is an attractive asset.
And there's a lot of people this could plug into a lot, and just use your imagination.
And also not just companies, but individuals who want platforms.
C NBC needs to do something.
Exactly.
I mean, you know.
You're seeing CNN trying to do podcasting with Jake Tepper and Anderson.
CNBC is local news with with sleeveless dresses and Andrew Rossorkin.
I mean, if you're new for the bigger.
By the way, why why does Joe Kieran get sleeves and none of the other people do?
Anyways, the We do not want to see them arms.
Brian Roberts and Comcast, they are very much.
It's not Comcast.
You have to say versant.
Whatever.
The Roberts family.
Whatever.
It's not the right thing.
They own only a certain portion of it as a public company.
It's similar.
There's others.
Anyway, it's the Robert St.
Help Versant, which also needs to be innovative.
So in that regard.
But there's lots of others.
MSNBC.
MS Now.
I'm sorry, MS Now.
MS Now and CMBC need a growth strategy.
They're they are in businesses in structural decline.
The average age of M MS Now viewer, I think it's 64.
CNBC at 67.
The average age of a podcast listener is 34.
The average age of pivot listener is 42.
They need an audience that isn't is going to be around for another five or ten years that buys shit that is in the midst of buying homes, having kids, making investments, buying mutual funds.
And they're smart people.
So they do I mean CNBC does an amazing job.
They have some of the finest financial journalists in the world.
MS Now has some of the most talented people in the world.
So but what they need is they need a structural growth engine.
They need to find platforms that are growing and are attracting a younger audience.
And to help their talent, too.
And they've been trying, but they're they've definitely been trying with more than that.
You know who probably inspired this whole idea?
Me.
What?
Other than you, is Nicole Wallace.
Yes.
Because Nicole, who's got a very popular show on MS Now, started a podcast that immediately went to the top of the rank.
I would bet Nicole's podcast is probably doing seven or ten million year in ad revenue, which doesn't seem like a lot, but I bet six or seven of that is go close to the bottom line.
So you gotta think the folks at Versant, Comcast, Roberts, Joey Bagadonuts, HBO Now, whatever you want to call it, it have to be.
Lots of lots of Vox podcasts are near the top, and over all the the network ones.
We're often high, we're always higher than all of them.
So anyway, it's interesting.
It's an interesting time.
We'll see what happens.
And we're nothing at all.
Nothing at all might happen.
We'll see.
Anyway, um uh it makes sense to us though.
Uh uh, we'll go on a quick break, and when we come back, the White House launches an app.
We're sitting here for sea.
Yep, unser autos in absolute wax.
Then a galaxy or gifts reise.
When your fluke for spawn has your account gleich off keep or see your hunger must was got often.
Yep, oh then we're for you here.
Enterprise here for sea.
All that's loot for us.
The gunstick Mac Smart Men is yet shown up 4990 by McDonald's.
There's basically been one guy in Republican politics who's argued for a regime change in Iran for years and for America to take a proactive military role in making it happen.
Ambassador John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor.
But now, even Bolton says Donald Trump is messing it up.
Uh as far as we can tell, he did no preparation of the opposition actually inside Iran.
No coordination, no effort to uh see what they would do, no no effort to support them to provide resources, money, arms if that's what they wanted, telecommunications.
Just no coordination at all.
And uh they don't seem prepared for it.
How Trump lost the Republican Party's biggest around war hawk.
Today explain every weekday and on Saturdays, too.
Scott, we're back with more news.
The White House just launched an official app for iPhone and Android featuring press releases and affordability tracker and an ice tip line, of course.
The Trump administration says the app offers a direct line to the White House, letting people text the president, sign up for newsletters.
But those features just link to White House contact forms that are already there, letting the administration access users' personal information and some additional privacy concerns.
People digging into the app, it took five seconds, found that it's tracking GPS location data every four and a half minutes.
It's a privacy nightmare.
Do not download it.
I would rather give my ex-wife access to my text message history than sign up for I mean, who is fucking stupid enough to do that?
I know it's not trustworthy.
Don't sign up for it.
Do you think?
No, but I mean I wouldn't mind that the White House has an app.
It's just this one is a really good thing.
People were like, okay, a company doing this, you call them scummy.
The government doing this to its citizens the same people that are demanding voter rolls, yeah, that are that are that are targeting people uh uh that are hiring Palantir to surveil people and you want to sign up for their app.
Don't and it's really sad because the White House should have direct communication with people, but to help people, not to take advantage of their fucking information.
These people, like literally, but someone who does apps is like, I I would think this is scummy for a scummy person, right?
Not our federal friggin' government.
Very typical of the Trump administration.
Do not get it, do not get it.
And also an ice tip line.
What kind of person are you that you tip on people?
Ugh.
That's my grand my grandfather was, you know, a Jamaican mob mob adjacent, I would say.
Not really in the mob.
Um, but like I hate a rat.
A rat.
A rat and rat.
Like, you know, it's fine to say see something, say something.
You see a bag in an airport.
Yes, report it.
But reporting on your fellow citizens is especially if they're not criminals.
But they haven't, they haven't committed a crime.
If they're not criminals, fuck you for doing that, you terrible people.
Anyway, one more quick break.
We'll be back for wins and fails.
Hi, I'm Brene Brown.
And I'm Adam Grant.
And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop.
A podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning.
It's gonna be fun.
We rarely agree.
But we almost never disagree, and we're always learning.
That's true.
You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday.
In 1984, Apple launched maybe the most consequential computer ever.
It was not a good computer, particularly.
There's actually a lot wrong with it.
But the Macintosh had all of the right ideas about what computers would become.
And it kind of changed everything.
This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history, we're telling the story of the Macintosh.
And why, again, despite not being very good, it managed to change everything anyway.
That's version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.
This week in two different courtrooms in the United States, juries handed down verdicts that suggest that social media platforms, while not responsible for the content on their platforms, may be responsible for the way their platforms actually work.
And that might change the way that social media works.
This week on the broadcast, we're exploring all of the ways that social media could change and might not.
Plus the 50th anniversary of Apple, and why, after trying every other phone I could find, I wound up just buying another iPhone on the VergeCast wherever you get podcasts.
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.
There's so many.
I think I shall start.
You go.
You know, I really I I have to say, I really like part slope.
I didn't think I'd say that, but I do.
I'm a Manhattan girl.
But I really enjoy uh being there and uh spending time there.
I like going to different places, and but I mostly want to say the win is Scott Galloway for being such a good landlord to me when I was in New York.
That's nice.
Thank you.
He's been generous and I love his apartment, it's wonderful.
Um, but I really um I I love being in like a lot, I feel really good about cities, and I feel like New York feels great, Washington does feel great.
I'm going to San Francisco soon.
I just I'm very uh I'm very up on cities these days and like kind of the creativity that you see everywhere um in in them and just kind of just a I just love a melting pot of people.
I really do.
Um so I really I I'm I'm winds are cities again.
$3,000 a square foot.
Yeah, who's melting?
No, we have to talk about it.
But I'm just saying I went all over the city.
I went all over the city, and and it just was I just love a city.
I just love a city.
I so could have predicted you'd end up in Brooklyn.
I did no, I would have done I would have done the West Village, but Amanda really likes that area and she has friends there, and I get it, and I get it.
I get it.
I get it.
Anyway, um God, you're gonna have Birkenstocks.
No, I'm not.
I never wear Birkenstacks, it's never happening.
No, I wear vans, let's be clear.
All right, and my fail is um oh god, there's so many.
But I think the worst one is I mean, I was going between Melania Trump's robot for teaching children, which I'm like worst idea ever.
I'm sorry.
Like, I don't mind robots folding laundry, and I'm sure we'll have them, and I don't mind them delivering things, fine, whatever.
But teaching children should be done by people with help from technology.
That is fine.
But this personalized educators for American children and her walking out there, I couldn't tell which was the row button, which was Melania, which is a typical joke.
But honestly, what an idiot.
I she's really what an a moronic thing to to to feature at the White House, is a featured stage and to stage the idea and insulting teachers.
I I I my kid just got in, my little kid got into the same public school Claire's in for next year.
And I just love, I just I love the teachers.
They really are dedicated and committed, the ones we have dealt with, Saul got in public schools.
But all the schools, and she was like, Yay, you go!
And so I just hated that that thing.
And Trump's signing the U.S.
currency, it was always been a treasury secretary person, just another grotesque, like look at me, mommy didn't hug me moment.
So just gross.
Just just oh, I can't wait till we get rid of all this stuff off all the gold in the office, which has gotten out of control.
And the whole thing.
I can't wait, we tear it all down, every bit of it.
So including getting his signature off the dollar when he puts it on.
Anyway, Scott.
I like this.
Uh so my win is, and you mentioned this.
I watched Louis Thoreau's documentary, The Manosphere.
And I I really it was very illuminating for me.
Um, and a few of the takeaways.
Uh, first off, these quote unquote, you know, icons of the manosphere, these podcasters or uh the folks portrayed, they're grifters.
And they don't even buy the things that they don't even buy into the ideology.
There's always a crypto scam or a trading platform, or or you know, buy their course or whatever it is.
Um they themselves, this is not about ideology for them.
This is just, this is just purely a grift.
And I think a decent way selling ideology as a product.
Well, and they're also trying to sell masculinity, and what I would argue is a decent proxy for or a decent query for masculinity is simple.
And ask yourself a question.
Are you optimizing for attention or for service?
And these guys are optimizing for attention, full stop.
And the other takeaways, I thought that uh Louis really did a good job of exemplifying that um strength is more about he's this slight guy who's a bit awkward, and he owns the room when he's in it.
He does.
Because he's quiet, he asks hard questions, he's not mean.
And the other thing, the takeaway, I think for younger men watching that is it's okay to occasionally absorb a blow.
And that, and I didn't learn this until I was older.
I thought if someone was rude to me or came off in traffic, I had to restore equilibrium to the universe and get back in their face.
And at one point in the documentary, his subjects are making fun of him, mocking him, and he just takes it.
It's like, I got a job to do.
I'm in I'm in service here.
The other thing that kind of rattled me was, and I think this is true of the manosphere, and it's a lesson for the left.
I don't think, I think a lot of the young men who are quote unquote in the manosphere or are drawn to these, these men or these, I don't know what you would call them, grifters.
It's not that they'd necessarily buy into this bullshit um ideology of dominating women or I mean, actually, some of these ideas some of the stuff, it actually starts off fine.
Be fit, take control, be aggressive, initiate your life, manifest success, and then it comes off the fucking rails, and it's usually about just dominating women and being a total misogynist.
But what you found, I thought what was most interesting is when they interviewed some of the acolytes, the people who are really drawn to these people, it's really upsetting because what these kids, what these boys, and they aren't boys, what they're looking for.
They're not, it's not that they're drawn to this ideology or this political viewpoint.
It's not even they're drawn, I I don't think to the misogyny.
They're drawn and they're so desperate for community.
They want a reason to hang out with and have a common bond among other young men.
Yeah, they want to get better.
They want to feel better about themselves.
They want to interact with that.
This is where the left has failed.
I agree.
What orthodoxy or ideology on the left creates a community for young men?
Yeah.
What is it?
You you said that early on when Kamala's didn't have stuff on her thing about men.
I don't think they're the problem.
That's not a community to rally around.
Like I I the questions I got, you know, I have expert questions.
One was for the guy who did adolescence, Jack.
And then I had Gretchen Whitmer ask a question, which who's been doing a lot of man boy stuff in in the state, because she understands it.
And it's so you're right.
You're 100% right.
Anyways, my win, I thought Louis Thoreau's documentary on the manuscripts, I found it so rattling.
I thought these young men, just so sad.
One one of the young men, he was talking about his brother took his own life.
You could tell these young men are just so desperate to find community in a sense of the city.
And other people who it's not even the ideology they're bonding over, they're just bonding.
Bonding, that's right.
Anyways, uh that's my win.
My fail is that I can I believe that the Democrats continue to show a lack of creativity and leadership around a series of incentives of what they are going to do and spell it out very specifically what they are going to do when they get control of the House and potentially the Senate.
And it should be something along the lines of the following.
If you look at the law, once once Democrats get control of Congress and Senate, they have subpoena power.
Once they get subpoena power, they should go after specific individuals for crimes, and then they should coordinate, and this is the key, with the attorney generals in blue states and start going after these individuals who are no longer protected by federal pardons.
So for example, the Attorney General in California might decide that if a trade on crypto went through and that family members of the Trump administration were illegally manipulating markets or engaging in any sort of insider trading, that California AG can coordinate with Democratic representatives to bring a case against them.
And that case is not subject to the protections of a federal pardon.
They need to sooner rather than later put these people on notice that if you are murdering people uh under the auspices of a secret police, if you are lying under oath, if you are engaged in crypto scams, if you have companies that overnight get contracts in the military violating the emoluments clause, some of the clear is crazy.
And a d a a candidate for president or a senator or a democratic representatives should outline specific cases they are going to bring against specific individuals in coordination with specific AGs in specific states that are not protected by a presidential pardon.
And then who's done that?
Fucking nobody.
We got close with what was her name?
Fanny Hill.
Fanny in Georgia, the Fulton County.
Yep.
But unfortunately, she, like Christy Nome, was fucking her number two, which blew that pa case apart.
Yes, that did.
But there is real opportunity here.
There is.
I think there's more attorney.
I'm being contacted by a lot of attorneys.
I think attorney generals are really starting to coordinate quite a bit on around these things.
And one of the things that's critical for all of you people waiting for a Trump pardon, remember, he's not going to give it to you till the very end because he's loyal only to himself and he's going to extract something from you, and that might be too late.
So I'm saying take that off the table.
Yeah.
No, I know, but I'm just saying, it just I think a lot of people are going to get that.
If the AG in Minnesota is saying you committed manslaughter, and you lied under oath, and as a result, we have an ICU nurse who is who is buried, we can come after you.
Anyways, that's my that's my fail.
Is I think that Democrats need to start punching back more creatively and more aggressively.
I like it.
I like it a lot.
Anyway, we want to hear from you.
Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.
Go to ny mag.com slash pivot, submit a question for the show or call 8551 Pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe from the latest episode of On With Caris Wisher.
I spoke to with North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis.
We talked about his upcoming retirement and how he can more freely criticize the Trump administration right now.
Let's listen to a clip.
I have expressed my concern in the past, not no longer have to worry about what language I use to communicate it, because I don't have to go through the costs.
Because I have to tell you, when I talk to some of your colleagues off the record, the Republicans, they're much more critical of Trump.
Of course, but look, I mean, you know what all martyrs have in common?
What?
They're dead.
And in politics, that's losing elections.
Very smart guy.
Very interesting guy.
But some people call him too late, tell us that he's done he always thought this and didn't say it.
And other people think, well, good for him.
And he is actually holding up uh the the Fed chair thing because of the bullshit thing, and he's holding up a lot of stuff.
He helped get Christy Nome out of there.
So I'm, you know, whatever.
My friend Neil Brennan, he was he said something very uh cogent, and he said, despite the temptation to say, you idiots, we told you so, or whatever, we need to be really good at welcoming anybody and praising anybody.
Yeah.
I agree.
I agree.
I think he's been he's gonna be very effective through January getting stuff because he's he's he's a very complex politician who's very behind uh gay marriage and stuff.
Like it's he's a complex conservative, and that's what we should do.
When you say behind gay marriage, you mean against it?
No, for uh he helped pass it when he was in North Carolina or something of protections.
He's he's much more um complex as it as a politician, and we should allow our conservative and liberal politicians to be complex and maybe not fully be on board with the purity tests on either side.
Anyway, okay, that's the show.
Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
We'll be back on Friday.
Today's show is produced by Lara Neyman, Joey Marcus, and Taylor Griffin.
Ernie Todd engineered this episode.
Rich Shibley edited the video.
Thanks also to Jim Burrows, Mr.
Vero and Dan Shallana, Shock Croaz, Vox Music Executive Producer Podcast.
Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.
Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media.
You can subscribe to the magazine at MYMag.com/slash pod.
We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.
Kara, what is a hipster's favorite cigarette?
Yours.
Support for this show comes from ODIO.
Running a business is hard enough.
So why make it harder with it dozen different apps that don't talk to each other?
Introducing Odoo.
It's the only business software you'll ever need.
It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.
CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.
And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.
That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.
So why not you?
Try Odoo for free at Odoo.com.
That's O D O Ocom.