# AI Market Shifts, Meta's Metaverse Exit, and Uber's Robotaxi Strategy

**Podcast:** Pivot
**Published:** 2026-03-20

## Transcript

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And I got to hang out with Larry David.
It's like Angry Meet Depressed, Depressed Meet Angry.
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.
And I'm Scott Calloway.
Scott, have you recovered from South by Southwest at all?
I'm still basking in the glow.
I thought it was great.
It was good.
Yeah, I had a good time in the end.
It was really fun.
Um what was your favorite highlight of it?
My favorite highlight.
Um besides our time together.
The way representative Tallerico described masculinity, and he talks about his father, I guess, who used to come home on Sunday and immediately change and then mow their lawn and then without ever talking about just went next door and mowed the lawn of this old lady's and I thought I and he described it.
Did you did did you ever mow people's lawns?
I used to mow lawns for money, but I I didn't do it.
I showed up to the house before I mowed a lawn and said, Hey, seven bucks in Ohio, and I'll mow your lawn.
Oh wow.
And I had a manual lawn mower, and I was all of about a hundred and twenty pounds pushing a magnet lawn mower around.
So you you were not taught to mow people's lawns.
No, I was taught to make money.
I was my dad was like, go make money.
Go make money.
Interesting.
I think jobs are huge for teens.
Yeah.
Yep.
Uh you know, my my son got a uh job at a taco truck last summer.
Mm-hmm.
It was so good for him.
Um, you know, so many anyways, so I I think uh chores, chores jobs and sports.
I mean, anyways.
And uh Anyway, it's with the reason I'm asking is because it's introspection.
I mean your introspection doesn't I I've gotten much more introspective just to today.
I'm here in Tulum and I've had some time to really contemplate, and I've decided that it's time for me at this age, Kara.
It's time for life is fine.
It's time for me to start to start living my dreams.
So I'm gonna start showing up for tests I'm not prepared for naked.
Well, as always, so you're in the Mark Andreessen school.
Have you heard about this situation, Mark?
Let me just say what it is.
Mark Andreessen, who I really don't like anymore.
I didn't like that much then, but he's really become such a troll.
He said uh on the he's an a famous he's he was part of the Netscape browser thing.
I wouldn't say he was the only person.
He did take a lot of credit.
Important entrepreneur in Silicon Valley, um, and etc.
And now he's a venture capitalist.
On the founders podcast with David Senra, he said, my goal is zero introspection as little as possible.
400 years ago, it would never occur to anyone to be introspective, like the whole idea, I mean, just all the modern conceptions around introspection and therapy and all the things that kind of result uh from that are kind of manufactured in the 1910s, 1920s.
Uh, this is very much in line with him being an expert on everything.
He used to lecture me about things he knew nothing about a lot.
Um it all it says to me is this man is in desperate need of therapy.
Um to, you know, he's just trying to be like, I don't think about anything.
Um, and I find it I found it very uh dystopian, and I find him dystopian in general.
Um, but this idea that introspection is a weakness, again, is not masculine, it's not feminine, it's not hum human, I think, in some way.
Yeah, i I think it's important to occasionally, you know, do do some sort of kind of pondering.
I ask yourself if you could only bring one thing to a desert island, what would you bring?
And I decided the answer is I wouldn't go.
No.
I need edibles, streaming media, my plane, Cara.
Um, look, in all seriousness, it's as if these guys, Alman and Andreessen, hired a publicist, the brightest comms person in the world, and said, How do we convince humanity we're bad for humanity?
And this notion that technology requires less energy to get to a point of critical thinking than a human is just so nihilist and so weird.
And then introspection is how we move forward as a species.
I was like, Socrates Plato, Marcus Aurelius, like it's been around.
He's like, oh, it's just the 1910s.
He's so ignorant, like the idea introspection is a critical element of all philosophy going back.
Also, by the way, Jesus test the Bible.
It's all about thinking about reflecting on how you become a better introspection, is why we have the Marshall Plan and why people reconnect with their family members.
Introspection is how you try to become a better person and realize the errors of your actions and that your actions have ramifications, and what can you do to be leave the world a better place?
And it's it's indicative again of this far-right performative, I won't even call it masculinity, but macho that I don't care, I just plow ahead because I'm such a baller.
It's just so it's just like okay.
It's crazy.
I I I don't like my grandmother didn't introspect a lot.
She kept grew up in the depression, right?
She didn't wonder if she was happy.
I think she was probably could have been happier, right?
That kind of thing.
And there's there's an element to that.
But this idea that this the idea of thoughtfulness has not been around since the dawn of fucking time drives me crazy.
The second thing is, look, this guy has a very famously doesn't speak to his family, right?
Like there's all manner of fucked upness that is buried very deep in this particular person who has influence on other who has massive influence on everybody else.
And you know, uh he's like a he's an emotional, uh I don't want to use, you know, he's just a tiny little man from a from a soul point of view, like extraordinarily small.
Um, and I find it really just bragging about it is is the last is, you know, he's the one that said we should fight more, like we should physically fight, like as if he could get in a fight with anybody, he'd lose in a second.
But this it's just they just you're right.
They do they're trying to be villains or something.
Uh by the way, the the main villain in the Marvel movies is quite introspective, FYI.
Well, uh I would argue that probably I mean, people would say the greatest mind of the 20th century is Einstein, but they should take a play, take a page from the playbook of the greatest, arguably the greatest technologist of the 20th century.
And that was someone who not only had a vision for technology, could but but could bring together people to what was at that moment, develop and deploy the most important technology in history, or at least the most profound, and that was Oppenheimer, and he was hugely introspective.
So is Einstein if you read the case.
They were really worried about what about the the ramifications of their actions and how they could spend the rest of their lives trying to, you know, uh they didn't just say the the introspection isn't some AI guy who vests his shares and then scares the shit out of the world as he pieces out to the Côte d'Azur.
That is not introspection.
Uh Bill Gates, for all the shit Bill Gates is getting, a lot of it is warranty.
He is a he decided I have become the wealthiest person in the world at that moment.
I am smart.
What could I do with my resources to impact millions of people?
And he started distributing.
He decided I think I can stop malaria in a continent.
That is introspection.
Yeah, anyway.
I it's it's m it's led to a lot of very funny memes, you know, Marcus Andronicus, and then z nothing.
It's called nothing.
What a soulless, empty person.
And this you're not where we should be getting clues as we go forward.
That's just my feeling.
And I think one of the more damaging figures uh from a from in terms of training young men uh at Silicon Valley is this guy.
He's not someone to follow.
Let me just say, I've known him since he was very young, and he and he's progressed negatively and and backwardly in a way that's really quite depressing.
Uh oddly enough, uh, in in relation, and then we'll finish up on this.
I had lunch at South by Southwest with Mark Cuban.
What a person who has developed in a really, he was telling me all about his cosplush, the passion around it.
Um I just was like he also looks great, by the way.
He looks great, yeah.
He's eating clams, that's another story.
Oh did he bored you with that story?
I had to suffer through that.
Did he buy on Amazon?
Yeah, I let's not get into it.
We'll we'll have him on to talk about it at some point.
He's trying to get protein, but um it was funny.
If oysters means GLP one, I believe it.
I'm seriously, I met with him and Michael Dell, and they're both claiming that they're playing a lot of Padel and a lot.
I'm like your old you could eat you right now.
Padel my ass.
Padel.
Anyway, they um I just was like, I had a wonderful talk about uh prescription drugs, about life, about his kids.
Like what it was such a difference.
Like he is the opposite of of um of the.
It looks like a good man trying to add value.
Yeah, exactly.
Anyway, uh, we have to move on.
But Mark, honestly, stop all of you.
Alex Carp said a number of things, stupid things.
Like, stop talking, all of you.
Stop talking.
Because what you say is nonsensical and actually makes you look so stupid and pathetic that it's I'm just here to help you on that issue.
Anyway, but but look, even if you're religion, you're supposed to reflect on some of it as some of crypto.
If Jesus if Jesus could feed the world with two fishes and a loaf, you know, if you really think about it, that's TAPAS.
I mean, peace peace out.
Peace out.
All right, let's move on.
I can't do any better than that.
I can't do any better than that.
Okay.
Um, as of this recording, oil prices in the more that's a segue.
That's a segue.
In the in a more in a more real situation.
Uh prices of oil's over $119 a barrel at one point following attacks on energy sites in the Gulf.
President Trump has been lashing out at U.S.
allies this week, demanding they send warships to help secure the Strait of Hormuz.
Uh the response has been, quote, global raspberry, as one analyst put it.
We're seeing also the first resignation over this war.
Counter-terrorism official Joe Kent stepped down saying Iran posed no imminent threat.
Of course, he went on Tucker Carlson.
He's of that ilk.
He has some he has some problems himself.
But nonetheless, he quickly went on Tucker Carlson to discuss his departure, because this is like the train, the right ring MAGA train, uh, if you're going in one direction.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon is asking the White House to approve $200 billion dollar request for Congress to fund the Iran War.
I think of an entire, I think Joe Biden was $180 billion for like years long wars or whatever.
Defense Secretary Pete Heggs has just said in a briefing that a number could move because it takes money to kill bad guys.
Speaking of introspection.
What an idiot.
Um the next move, what happens here?
Trump also said this week, by the way, that a former president told him he regretted not bombing them, but all the former living presidents denied saying that, so I guess he's talking to himself.
I mean, they've denied it.
Like he's such a liar.
It's astonishing, like what this guy does.
Um, obviously, either cognitive or just a liar.
I'm not sure.
Where do you think of what what do you think is happening here now?
Let's have a quick update.
Well, I mean, mother of all understatements is it's complicated.
Look, I think the fatal flaw of the Trump administration is they don't recognize our power as a species and as a country, and that is as powerful as we are, we're only a third of the world's GDP.
But because we were seen as the good guys and innovators, and that we did embrace this notion that if we can make you wealthier and more peaceful, ultimately that wealth and peace will return home in the form of you buying our trucks and being our ally, and we can put a military base there.
And the operating system of 60 or 70 percent of the world was U.S.
laws, military flows of energy, general rule of law, even democracies, even laws and justice systems were based off the U.S.
model.
And to to his lesser extent the British model, it just got evolved.
We were sort of 2.0.
And he's decided, no, with 30 percent, I can go at it alone.
And what he's found is all of a sudden he's one third versus two thirds.
And this is just when my we, you know, we warned my son not to take grapefruit juice into the to the living room with the brand new couch.
And he tells us, don't be an idiot, I can handle it.
And then he screams, Dad, I need help.
And I know exactly what's happened.
It's just spilled the grape.
Well, what do you know?
Uh we're gonna I'm gonna do this unilaterally.
I'm not gonna go to the UN.
I mean, talk the Gulf One.
George Bush put together a coalition of, I think 31 countries.
He got UN authorization, and he got the Allies to pay 62 of the 70 70 billion dollars in cost.
That war costs is and a great sacrifice for many of them.
And of course, he's been downplaying their sacrifice, and they're now like literally saying no.
And by the way, and if you get come out of NATO, fine.
Like they're now at that point.
I mean, you know, whatever.
He asked China for help.
And by the way, China's ships are flowing through.
So the notion that he's going to quote unquote an enemy or an emesis, going to people he's been really rude to.
I mean, this is just and they didn't anticipate that they w wouldn't be able to count on their allies.
Uh I I didn't anticipate the Iran pushback, the strength of the I mean, he was advised by by the way, pretty much stories coming out now are like he was told this, he was told this, he was told they would do this.
They would close the straight over moves.
Like everyone's leaking their the shit out of things, which is really I mean, what's interesting, I I I know it's the smallest part of it, but the lie about presidents was weird.
It was just weird.
Like, why would you say that?
And then they all say no.
And it looks like he's uh it's a lie, or he's talking to himself or whatever.
It the whole thing seems like m lies come out of his mouth every day now that are easily checkable.
Like easily checkable lies and that don't really work.
And so something's going on, something's happening in a way that's I mean, I don't want to give him an excuse.
Maybe he's just a malevolent prick, but it seems problematic that he's leading this coalition of the one.
And also when you when you when you hire incompetent conspiracy theorists, which is what Joe Kent is, I mean, this is very upsetting for me as someone who, you know, quite frankly, as a Jew.
And that is he immediately said that the basically the largest military in the world in the United States is being manipulated by Jews.
And this just plays into a very anti-Semitic trope being fomented on the far right.
And I don't I don't know.
Yeah, that this is all be this is all Jews' fault.
Yeah.
That is just what they were doing.
That's not helpful.
Yeah.
So uh it's one thing to be against the war, and I think there's some legitimate like or to say Netanyahu has too much influence over.
I get it.
No, I get it.
No, I mean just saying the America first people can say we don't like wars, and but they do always take it right into that.
That was that that uh Tu Tucker Carlson's a dangerous person in that regard, I'll tell you.
Oh, they're doing a victory lap.
They're like the number whatever, five at the, you know, in our intelligence unit is is saying what what Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are saying that it's the Jews.
We're being manipulated by the Jews.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's problematic.
It's a problematic.
So what so oil prices, what what what is what the actual impact is this gonna have on the economy as a whole, it's immediate.
Uh I mean, unfortunately, and it always happens.
It hurts, it hurts uh middle income families and lower income.
Already you're talking about an increase for every dollar increase of the pump, and it looks like we are gonna have about a dollar increase.
It's another $530 a year.
And low-income families spend almost get this 20% of their income on home and auto energy costs.
Yeah, and then the the residual effects of food, everything.
Every single thing.
Everything you touch is impacted.
Everything got to you using some form of fuel or is or is consuming fuel.
And it's gonna probably spike inflation an additional hundred bips um in the short run.
So speaking of which, Jerome Powell says he'll stay on his Fed chair until his successor is confirmed by the Senate, even if that's after his terms expires, he has every right to.
It could be a while.
The Senate hasn't even scheduled a hearing for Trump's nominee, Kevin Warsh.
GOP Center Tom Tillis, who I'm talking to uh next week, says he won't vote on confirmation until the DOJ investigation on Powell is over.
They've they've been handed some court things to Janine Piero and the rest uh around Powell uh for his part, and they're appealing it, I think.
For his part, Powell also says he'll stay on his Fed governor, which I said he would.
Remember, I said this until the investigation is well and truly over.
Um this is ex-I thought he would do this.
He looks like he he ran out of fucks a long time ago.
Um and well and truly over means he could stay up as long as he is a while there on that Fed governor thing, and he'll have as you noted many times, enormous influence.
So he's the this is the opposite of what Trump wanted, and he's stuck with Powell and Tillis.
I can tell you, is not give I mean he's not stopping at all, at all.
So I think if it had been a different president who demonstrated more grace to him, I don't doubt he would have stepped down or if he'd said to him, Listen, I want you to be my chief economic advisor.
I uh, you know, I have a even something more important for you.
But keep in mind, as long as Jerome Powell is in the room.
I've said this.
There's there's how you think there's the governance structure, and then there's actually how boards and body politic works.
And this is how this is essentially a board of directors.
This is how they work.
There's a bunch of them in every board, there's 12 people.
And there's two people who matter.
There's the largest shareholder, which d doesn't uh apply here.
And then there's someone who's so fucking smart that everyone they don't speak a lot, they listen a lot.
But when they speak, everyone has a tendency to nod their head.
And that tell me the whatever it is, the ele other 11 governors are gonna when when Jerome Powell says, you know, uh who whatever the the chair is the person who he's gonna run it.
I don't think I think Tillis isn't giving I I I know Tillis isn't giving up.
He said it.
He's like he Tillis now suddenly, as you said, banned his balls, and he's like, No, I'm gonna do the right thing for he's very offended by the Jerome Powell thing.
I know that.
And so I think it's he's a business person, he's a really well recorded he had a you know, he was a even though you know he sounds like he's like from the country.
Very smart guy, is very stuck on this Powell not putting uh Walsh through.
Um obviously he helped take down uh Christy No.
Um I think there's there's such a pushback, not just from our allies abroad, but here it if you're someone like Tom Tillis and can stop this, you do it.
Like, why not?
What's what's the negative for him?
There's nothing because he's now because Trump tried pushed him out essentially of the Senate.
And now he's an enormous position of power and and influence, the same thing.
And so Powell's Powell's not gonna bring rates down, by the way, especially with inflation up.
So Trump has gotten the opposite of everything he wanted.
So Cal Shu said there was a 99% likelihood they would not cut rates.
But where I was headed was I would bet 98% of the decisions in the Fed from the board of governors, regardless of who's in charge, regardless of who takes the mic, uh, the new chair, whatever Jerome Powell said was probably the right move in that meeting is what they're gonna do.
This is the guy that had a Mary Lou Retton like stick the landing of the economy, where he basically tamed inflation by 600 basis points while not going into recession.
Like no one in economics, you know.
I think Walsh is perfectly qualified, but Trump now has Jerome Powell forever.
Like, especially the the dumb attack on his consultant.
I think another another six or twelve years or something or whatever, basically till Powell dies.
And also he's gonna stay there as the as the head of it.
It's just anyway.
It's it's good for him.
Good for him.
I think I think he is I think he is literally the first he's a hero.
The first Medal of Freedom recipient.
Yeah, he's one Democrats love to show that they're bipartisan.
It'll probably be Vice President Spence will be first the first one, and the second one will be Jerome Powell.
Vice President Spence.
Who's um Pence?
I'm sorry, Pence.
Pence.
Oh, Vice President Pence.
Yeah.
Oh, that's a good idea.
The two of them.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Pence does not get enough recognition.
His legacy is gonna age really well.
Yes.
Father.
I like father at this point.
Father's actually really well.
Father and Powell.
That's work for me.
Uh okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
When we come back, we'll say goodbye to the metaverse.
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Scott, we're back with more news, and Meta is shutting down its VR metaverse on June 15th.
The legless people are gone.
The VR social network Horizon Worlds never drew more than a couple a hundred thousand active users a month.
Some users reported the daily active users actually dropped to under a thousand.
Who are those people?
I want to meet those people.
Over 70 billion was spent on the project over time.
You have talked about this for a long time.
I never liked the metaverse.
He said there was uh open quote a lot of misinformation about the company's plans.
We announced, hey, we're moving away from Horizon Worlds and VR.
And the headline is that Horizon is dead.
He said it's not, and likewise, VR is not dead.
We're continuing to invest tremendously.
Uh this is weak sauce.
We fucked up.
Nana is on life support, and despite the fact she might have brain waves, we're pulling the plug soon.
This is in my view, an attempt to uh backtrack and not totally freak out the remaining employees before they find them another job or lay them off.
This is dead, uh, in my view.
And uh, you know, uh in an attempt to, if you will, say no, there's still hope when they believe uh uh and every indication here is that uh this thing is maybe in hospice, but be clear, it's on the green mile.
All right, enough of that.
Let's move on.
Well, the press was fawning over the idea.
You were not impressed.
Let's let's listen to a clip from 2021.
I just love the fact that Mark Zuckerberg is is showing up with literally the biggest fucking thud in history, and that's the Oculus.
That's his vision for the metaverse.
Now one from 2022.
And so if he pulls it off, it'll be one of the most impressive feats in renewal, corporate r not even corporate renewal, but vision around maintaining growth, if they pull it off.
I don't think they're going to.
I think this thing is already a giant flaming bag of shit.
One from last year.
I was the original hater of headsets and metaverse.
And the idea of a bunch of cyborgs rocking around in their own world, even when they were outside, it was sort of anathema to like everything we should be doing.
Nice call, Scott.
Let me just say that.
Second of all, I didn't like Meta because the legless, it was weird.
Remember when he introduced it, it was so weird and awkward at the time.
Umishing here is that he could have this much of a loss and still they're doing so well elsewhere that this $70 billion doesn't matter, and he's fed it, while other people who have losses get slapped back to but this is such a failure.
Please, please take a lap and conclude this chapter of Mark Zuckerberg's life for us.
Nauseous, or that they further separate from human.
I'm shocked, Kara.
I'm shocked this didn't work.
I I had big hopes for it because anything Mark Zuckerberg is clearly right.
Uh this is I mean, the the scariest thing, I think the scariest thing about our economy, other than the income inequality, is the fact that we have now tied the fate of the SP and the 10% wealthiest households who control the economy now and government.
We've tied it to our ability to evolve a new species of asocial, asexual males and some females.
And the thing is, this is this is a healthy gag reflex from mammals.
One on a very instinctive level.
Because the things you can eat and the things that can eat you don't come straight at you.
They have a habit of coming from behind you or from the side.
And so your peripheral vision, and the reason why billboards on the highway are still a big business, is you notice shit in your peripheral vision.
You're very subconsciously conscious of what's in your peripheral vision or what isn't.
And when it's blocked with a headset, you feel uncomfortable.
So uh no, they never spoke to an anthropologist to say, all right, what happens when we amend a technology that from the moment they turn it on?
It's like if you turned on your PC and it made you feel slightly nauseous.
Yeah, no, all of those.
Remember all those um those the all all of that stuff.
Remember, they showed it at CES years ago where you looked at a TV that was jumping out at you.
It was sickening.
And no one, and never, it was a big thing one year at CES and then it wasn't.
Let me ask you, I'm gonna ask you a more challenging question.
All right, look, we're gonna have immersive worlds, right?
In some way.
And some of it is kind of cool.
I remember 20 years ago, Walton, I went to Korea and went to either Sony or LG, and we were looking at these headsets in movies.
Pretty fucking cool.
I remember thinking that, and I wasn't nauseous.
I went to the sphere this week, which I loved.
I saw the Dorothy thing, and I thought it was wonderful.
And we were all in a big room, and I have to say it was a lovely communal experience because everyone was laughing and they dropped apples out of the sky and everything else.
I there is something I want you to say what will work here, because there is an immersive experience with screens that is very satisfying.
What would you if you had to pick a business in this in the immersive screens, either on your head or in a situation like the sphere, which I think is a spectacular achievement in a lot of ways.
And it's also beautiful on the outside because it's delightful.
Um, what do you what do you imagine that to be?
They're ne I don't think they'll ever be big businesses care.
I think they're niche experiences.
I think that our species has gotten really used to and comfortable with as bad as it is this world.
So IMAX is an immersive experience, but it's never really lived up to the potential outline.
It's a good business, though.
Yeah, it's been quite frankly, over the last 40 years, it's been a shitty business.
Uh IMAX, relative to the cost, it's been okay.
I love IMAX every time.
That's what I do when I take my I love saying shit in IMAX.
I'm going to see Project Hail Married tomorrow night.
It's a niche business.
The only place I want an immersive experience is when I'm having my teeth cleaned by a hot single mother Brazilian single mother.
And then she puts on headset that I can watch, heated rivalry.
Right.
And she, you know, and then I start crying because I start thinking about my mom and I'm under the influence.
I tell her to when she says, she says one to ten, nitrous, I go 12 baby.
Can I tell you what I liked about like you're right, they're experiential things.
One of the things that was cool about Zevir is I have seen uh Wizard of Oz a million times recently too, because of my little kids are now watching it.
So it's not something I want to see again and again.
But one of the things I thought was quite beautiful was the ability to see things in the movie that I never saw.
Like some of the beautiful costumes, some of the beautiful, you know, set design.
And oddly enough, the faces of all the people that weren't Dorothy, like, or the or the main characters, like I found myself looking at these beautiful faces from another era, right?
Like there was two twins there that I never noticed.
And so one of the things I found, it wasn't just I everyone's like, oh, the tornado.
And I was like, that was cool.
But what was beautiful was I could really see things in a way that I appreciate in a way I appreciated.
So it there is something valuable about immersive in some way, like travel, I suppose, if, or when you go to a theme park and you you get on one of those rides that you like, you know, you go you soar past the Golden Gate Bridge.
I love all those things.
No, look, going into another world, you feel like an explorer, it's it's sensory overload, it's really exciting, and then you want out.
Escape Escape Room is correctly named.
You wouldn't, you wouldn't want to live in this sphere.
Your body can't handle that much sensory sensory sensory stimulation.
And the sphere, by the way, similar to IMAX, an amazing product.
It's not doing well economically.
So the idea, or even uh the ultimate sensory experience, the ultimate moment of awe, supposedly, according to astronauts, is to go into space and see the world from another perspective.
But guess what?
What's the first thing they want to do after a week?
Get home.
They want to get home.
So what what I think I wish technology was more focused on.
I hate this notion that we need to colonize Mars.
No, the uh the the real genius here is someone who's gonna make this place a little bit more fucking habitable.
I'm in Tulum, staring out at palm trees and coconuts and the sand, the sugary sand, and I'm in awe and I'm comfortable.
And this is the only fucking universe I want to be in.
Yeah, no, I know.
It's true.
I've never wanted to go to the space.
Anyways, it's it it look, it's a disaster, Mark.
You m you were wrong, and Scott was right.
That's all I have to say.
Speaking of scaling back, open AI is scaling back on projects and focusing on coding and business uh users.
Pressure for the change comes from competitors like Anthropic, which you and I have been talking about dominating the business AI market.
Employees also felt the company's do everything strategy led to a lack of focus.
Speaking of which, uh OpenAI delayed the launch of the adult mode, which would allow sexually explicit conversations due to concerns from aver advisors over mental health risks, you think.
Also of concern an age prediction system that has been misclassifying minors as adults 12% of the time.
The feature which the company still plans to release eventually would be text only.
Um this is all the influence of Fiji uh SEMO, uh, who is the new top executive there.
Very similar when Eric Schmidt came to Google.
They they were sort of chaotic and did everything, the two founders, Larry and Sergei.
Um, and then they brought uh Eric in to really clean it up.
Seems sort of basic, this the you know, this this executive, but they do have done made like a million stupid announcements, and it does remind one of Google in that regard.
Thoughts?
You're exactly right.
It's remember when Google was doing shit like trying to cure death, and then I I feel like Eric brought in managerial competence and how to scale an organization, but Ruth Perrat showed up and said, All right, mom is home, fun time's over, the dog's pregnant and the garage is on fire, I'm in charge now.
And this is the right move for open AI.
And that is uh, and by the way, and this will go to my prediction, Anthropic is not worth more than OpenAI.
I don't care what the last mark is on uh preferred funding, but uh uh anthropic has surged to 19 billion in A uh annual recurring revenue up from 14 billion just a couple weeks ago.
Six billion in ARR was added just in February.
Open AI ARR was 20 billion at the end of 2025.
And here's the key it's all about the enterprise, because they're the only ones that are willing to make these huge investments.
And get this, Kara.
Anthropic's enterprise market share has increased to 32 percent, surpassing OpenAI's 25%.
And since 2023, enterprise AI revenue has exploded from 1.7 billion to 37 billion.
Yeah, they've got to be.
The OpenAI's really messed this up.
And then the other the other the other staggering statistic here that is why OpenAI is focusing, which is the right thing to do, is anthropic is now capturing three out of four new spending in enterprise AI.
So they're getting 73% of all spending among companies buying AI tools for the first time.
And 10 weeks ago, the split with OpenAI was 50-50.
So get this.
Thank you, B Heg Seth.
It was 6040 in OpenAI's favor as recently as early December.
From so from December to now, it's gone from 6040 to 20 to 2773.
So they are they are literally losing the enterprise market.
So it's starting to feel like OpenAI is Netscape, not Google, right?
That's how it starts.
You know, I just I was there when Google was the first bout of chaos, was at the beginning.
And there was, you know, there was a cover of Fortune Magazine Chaos at Google.
And of course, Ruth also shut down all their all manner.
They had so many ridiculous shit they were doing.
And they could do it just like Mark with with the metaverse, because they had all this money, but it was like dumb.
Like it was at the time when they would have you in.
And I was always like, This seems dumb.
Like, why are you doing this?
Like, why don't you stick with your business?
And they just wanted to be more creative or more something, more interesting in some fashion.
But uh it's really interesting because this is at a time when I think, you know, uh anthropic's been under pressure from the government, but in the end, they will soar and Pete Heggseth will be a you know, a a a sad little footnote, a sad little drunken footnote in our history.
Um anyway, we'll see what happens.
Um speaking of somebody who won't be a footnote, I would say is Bob Iger's stepped down as uh Disney CEO again.
Iger passed the baton to his successor, Josh DeMoro at Disney's annual shareholder meeting this week.
Tomorrow, a 28-year-old veteran of the company was most recently head of Disney Experiences, which includes parks, cruises, and resorts.
Iger is set to stay on as an advisor and board member until the end of 2026.
Not very long.
It's unclear what he'll do after that.
Before the last time he left, he did a bunch of advising and sailing around on a boat in the South Seas.
Uh I last time he retired, which I said he wasn't gonna stay retired.
I asked him whether he planned to get into politics.
Let's listen to what he told me in 2022.
Did you ever run for office?
Uh I'm not planning to run for office.
That's is that a no?
That's just what I said.
I'm not sure.
Okay, all right, fine.
I think you are.
Um so last thing.
Um you should.
I I don't you should have to.
I usually do not tell another white guy, oh, please run for office.
We don't have enough of you.
But I think you would be an excellent because I think you'd be an excellent politician, because I don't think you give a fuck.
Uh anyway, I don't think he's gonna run for office, actually.
I I don't I can't imagine he's gonna do that.
Um, but what do you think his next act will be?
Uh I mean, he certainly had his ups and downs, and the stock has not reflected much of it.
Although I do think he did a lot around digital.
I think he did a lot around streaming.
Um I think he was a very good CEO for much of his tenure and not so good in other things.
I think probably the Fox purchase is one people point to as being problematic, but in general, pretty good tenure, um, especially around streaming.
I I think that he made those moves.
Um, what do you think his next act should be?
Hit the golf course and enjoy his life.
And I I would call challenge on his tenure, Kara, because the last 10 years have been the most prosperous in the history of the world for American companies.
And his stock is below where it was ten years ago.
And at the end of the day, as the CEO.
That's your what you're just evaluated.
That's your kind of metrics one, two, and three.
He quite frankly, he really fucked up.
He's the guy who went to Vietnam, completed his tour honorably, came home with medals pinned to his chest.
He could be a viable candidate for the Democratic nomination right now, but he's more, he looks less like Mark Cuban and more like Cheryl Sandberg.
And that is his second tenure.
First off, he was heckling from the cheap seats.
He left and never really left the room, but convinced the board, as far as I can tell, to fire the new guy and put me back in like some returning hero.
And he has had huge wins in his face.
But Disney has become Disney has gone from being probably the most iconic company in the creative community to a certain extent it represents what's happened to the creative community.
And that is distinctive how incredible it is, and their great IP and their great creativity.
It's been bad for shareholders, and it's probably been a difficult place to work the last 10 years.
And he did he did make a lot of the right moves.
He launched a streaming network, he invested in the parks.
But at the end of the day, his last 10 years, there was a there was never a clear succession path.
He started to feel a little bit like I forget the name of that guy at City Crew Citigroup, that any time someone got near him got shot in the head.
So he leaves, he he's very likable, he's very smooth.
Had he stayed away and then just let someone else run with it, I think he'd probably be a cabinet member, maybe even by you know, in the next administration at a minimum.
Now he's now he's the guy that quite frankly took Disney.
He didn't take the stock anywhere.
I get that.
I understand.
I think doing the streaming stuff was critical to its future, and he definitely pushed that through.
Like I I was there watching.
I mean, he made a number of dumb digital moves over the years.
They kept changing Disney Boy of Vista when he I mean, I was th I wrote stories on every one of them.
And but I do think directionally, very few people leaned into digital and streaming the way he did, right?
And I think Oh, I don't know.
I would argue Netflix leaned in a little bit more.
Well, Netflix, of course.
No, no, yes, no.
They should have bought Netflix when they had the chance, and they everybody had the chance at one point.
Um, but yeah, you're right.
Netflix was in the in the right position.
But you are dragging around a legacy organization, makes makes it very hard.
I mean, Netflix, uh, so okay, so Disney in the last 10 years has market returns of zero.
And Netflix is up four, no, I'm sorry, it's up six hundred percent.
Uh yeah.
And granted, the other studios have not fared any better, but uh with that IP with the Parkster cash flow.
Yeah, look, uh Bob, what's the lesson here?
The lesson is the following, and I think about this a lot.
It is very hard to pull off the ultimate gangster move for your brand when you're in a position of power and you're doing well, and that is to leave the party too early.
Um, and that is people have a tendency when they're doing well and they're so iconic as Bob Iger is and was, to think to just stay too long.
Yeah.
You want to leave the stage while people are clapping.
You want to leave a party 10 minutes too early.
You want to leave the Vanity Fair Oscar Party at midnight, not at 4 a.m.
when you're wandering around alone, and it's clear Emily Rodakowski is not going to speak to you.
She's there.
By the way, at one point I was sitting at the bar.
We didn't talk about this because you were blabbing away to all your other people.
I was sitting at the bar, no joke, in between John Ham, who's quite handsome, and Jake's a handsome man.
And Jacob Alordi, who's even more handsome and much taller.
Yeah.
Emily started walking towards the bar, and all I could think of is there's no fucking way she's coming to me right now.
Yeah.
No way.
I'm like, I'm like, uh, the price is right.
This is the real Emily Reddit.
You saw her.
Oh, yeah.
Trust me.
Okay.
I saw her.
Okay.
Yeah.
By the way, she looks, she looks pretty good.
She looks pretty pretty.
So wait, what happened?
Wait, the I I only want the Radikowski part.
Go ahead.
Nothing.
She did she's locked up and had a drink.
And at some point I'm like, I I want to be the professor, not the stalker.
So uh, but my favorite moment is You didn't say hello.
I'm too stimulated.
Oh my God.
Come on she's got to know we talk about it.
I said hi to Maureen Dowd and Caitlin Collins.
Those are my friends.
I saw that.
Those are that's who I hang out with.
And the smartless guys.
Those guys are fun.
I like those guys.
They're fun.
Those are fun.
And they they're like, they feel sorry.
The only people that come up to me are like, they give me as an intellect.
They think, oh, it's so cute.
They have a professor here.
Let's go be nice to them.
That's our charity for the night.
And everybody comes up to me and says, I have sons and I very much appreciate your work.
And then they say, Oh, can I meet, you know, can can I meet Judd Apatow now?
I'm convinced half the people.
Half the people talking to me.
Yeah.
Oh no.
No.
I can't believe you didn't speak to Emily Radically.
By the way, that party Vanity Fair.
Those people are geniuses.
I'm gonna subscribe twice.
Okay.
The the environment they pulled together that night.
Yeah, it's nice.
It's a nice one.
I would are I think it's the most aspirational environment I've ever been in in my life.
I just couldn't get over the wardrobe, the environment, the food, the vibe.
They've always done a good job.
I just saw it uh the new editor in ch unbelievable.
Mark.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mark just is an amazing, handsome guy, too.
Yeah.
I have to say they've always had a good party.
They've been good at that with it under all their different editors.
I think it's a good thing.
And I got to hang out with Larry David.
It's like angry meet depressed, depressed meet angry.
Oh my god, you look alike.
What happened?
Was there like a moment in the universe?
We really uh Larry and I are friends now.
Oh, we're we totally get along.
Okay, all right.
Yeah, we hit it off.
And by the way, the Larry David show is really the labid Larry David show.
He's like I know.
That's exactly who he is.
He's like, What's the point of an Oscar?
He just starts into a bit, and you're like, okay, here we are.
He has a news show that looks hysterical that he did with the Obamas.
Anyways, I very much.
I don't know.
I got to be a bigger with Bob Iger there?
Because it was a good idea.
I did not see Bob.
I did not sense a cashmere sweater tuxedo anywhere.
Uh but the thing is you walk in and they like, do you want to do a red carpet?
And Maureen Taylor's like, I'm not doing a red carpet.
And I'm like, I am so doing the red carpet.
And they have hundreds of photographers.
And there's three X's.
And I guess you're supposed to go to one X and take pictures.
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
So I go to the first X and they're like, hello, Professor, and they're all nice.
And I'm like, now I'm going to go to the second X and sit here and pose.
Get the fuck out of here.
And then I go to the third X, and by the time I got to the third X, I realized everyone's like, What the fuck is this guy doing?
And one of the photograph one of the photographers, just out of a moment of like feeling sorry for me, kind of waved me along.
He's like, You're supposed to go to just one X.
And I turned beat red.
I'm a bad celebrity.
Oh my God.
Can I ask you one question?
Did you see Jeff Bezos?
He was there.
Oh yeah, I saw him with Lauren.
I thought they looked great.
I don't know.
No, I didn't.
I thought they were.
I don't mind Jeff's midlife crisis.
I'm here for it.
I know.
But did you say hello?
I said hello to all three of them.
I mean, I said Yeah, no, no, I said hello.
I didn't say hello.
I'm telling I'm intimidated.
Unless people come up to me, I'm intimidated.
I don't like to approach and you could have gone and said Kara says hello.
That that in that one you could have done that.
That's hi, my rich father knows you.
I just don't want to do that.
I don't see that's a good thing.
No, he doesn't like me.
I would be bad.
He wouldn't be able to do that.
But I I literally freaked out at about midnight.
I'm like, this is the best party of my life.
I need to go home and take a Xanax and just recover from all the time.
I feel like a kid who'd been out of the candy store for eight hours.
Did you?
I can't believe my only note is I can't believe you didn't say hello to Emily Radkowski.
You're a loser.
You are a loser.
And I think she was there alone.
Not that I was like looking at her a lot.
I think she was a little bit more.
You needed to say this was that was your golden opportunity.
You didn't say hello.
That's the end of our relationship.
Anyway, Bob Iger's next act, very quickly.
He'll go on a couple boards and he'll enjoy his life, and he deserves to do all of those things.
And hang out with his lovely wife and speak at USC's film school.
I think it's something else.
Bob is 74, 73.
Yeah, he is in really good shape.
When he was in the last one, he texted me far too much, and I was like, I think you need to do something else.
Because I think he's got another thing in him.
I don't know what it is.
No, no, he's 75.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He could be in the cabinet.
We could be in the Democratic.
Well, is that 77, 78?
He could be the head.
Could he be the commerce secretary?
I don't know.
Yeah, man.
I don't know.
He probably doesn't want to.
What do you need that shit for?
Could we Ambassador of France and throw amazing parties?
Parties that like the U.S.
residents.
That's perfect.
Ambassador to France.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Bob, we're going to send you to France.
Anyway, let's go on a quick break.
When we come back, we'll talk about Calci facing criminal charges.
Your favorite groups of people there, Scott.
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When you think about wealth inequality in America, there's probably one man whose name comes to mind.
And yes, he did compare America's billionaire era to the Gilded Age.
We're living in a moment where the top 1% owns more wealth than the bottom 93%, where one man, Elon Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom 53% of American households.
Where, while 60% of our people are living paycheck to paycheck, the billionaire class has seen its wealth increase by a trillion and a half dollars since Trump was elected.
How's that?
They doing pretty well.
I talked to Senator Bernie Sanders about his latest bill for a wealth tax and his call for a moratorium on AI data centers.
Plus, how much he uses AI himself.
Today explained.
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Scott, we're back with more news.
Calci is facing criminal charges in Arizona where prosecutors say the prediction market platform illegally let people bet without a gambling license.
Cal, she says the charges are meritless and said they should be regulated federally rather than by individual states.
The case is the first criminal prosecution against a prediction market company.
It's more to come.
I actually, when I was at South by South, met met with the California Attorney General, who today um did uh a lawsuit, uh, one of the lawsuits against the Next Star, whatever that ridiculous merger was.
Um in any case, this is the states have been regulating gambling for years, like forever for decades.
So it's not meritless.
Um what do you what do you think does this?
Because what was interesting, another story popped up which I found fascinating.
The Times of Israel reporter received death threats from gamblers on polymarket after reporting an Iranian missile strike that affected a high sex prediction market bet.
Some betters tried to pressure him to change the story so their market would resolve in their favor.
And let me just say it feel this is the topic people are really interested in.
I'll read an email from one of our listeners.
I'm a journalist and a fan of the show.
I don't understand why I'm hearing Calci percentages cited during the show as evidence anything.
It's people guessing I think it's more harmful than helpful.
That's you doing it, Scott.
I don't do that.
I I agree with you.
Um, what do you think about these markets shifting from predicting events to actively influencing them in certain given the gaming part, easily gamed, uh unregulated, bad actors, it is gambling.
Um, and gambling is very well regulated.
So what do you think about that?
I think there's some truth to all of that.
I I'm this is one of those things I'm hugely conflicted by because I am absolutely fascinated with the data.
Uh, where I would push back on the listener is oh no, this data is incredibly insightful.
Um the wisdom, this is the wisdom of crowds.
This is this does illuminate whenever I'm looking at political races, whenever I'm looking at interest rate movements, I go to I go to Cal.
You don't think it's a trailing indicator?
You don't think it's a trailing indicator?
It's pretty much up to date.
And the thing about money and the thing about looking at typically the people who did this stuff were were academics, economists, or an investment banking analyst.
All of them are conflicted, all of them want to catastrophize because it makes us look smarter.
All of us have third-party influences.
Nothing is more amoral and pure than money.
It just when someone bets on something, it really shows you what they really think is going to happen.
And if you look at it's it these companies, these speculative markets, speculation markets or prediction markets have essentially put polsters into a certain extent investment banking analysts out of work because guess what?
They're money.
Kind of.
I I would push back on that.
I just met with a bunch of polsters on this topic.
But go ahead.
They, if you look at, if you look at the prediction markets record versus polsters in the last election, the prediction markets kick their ass.
Absolutely.
I love the data.
I am swimming in the data.
It's one of the first things I do before I get on a show, is I look at I look at Calci data.
Cal I'm I'm totally conflicted because at the same time, there's a really good argument that this is just gambling.
Now, what's happening is they're being charged with four counts of election wagering.
Um the the debate is over the fundamental definition of gambling versus event contracts.
And Arizona charges claim that putting money on a contingent future event or occurrence is illegal.
But at the same time, Kara, if that's true, then traditional options would be illegal.
And that here's the problem or the issue.
Gambling and tapping into a prefrontal cortex, an immature prefrontal cortex that is dopa-hungry and susceptible.
Uh in some ways, there's just no getting around it.
It feels predatory and unhealthy.
So what do you do?
Do you infantilize?
I think Calci is trying to be the the clean, the cleanest, best lit place of this.
They're not doing contracts on things like war, whereas polymarket is offshore, and Calci is trying to get licensed by the same people who license the options exchange.
But I I want to hear what you think.
I have no moral clarity around this.
I think the states have been regulating gambling forever.
So I think that's nonsense that they sh if this if gambling is going on, they need to remind you.
States have been approving gambling all over the world.
They are, but so they need to be regulated in the same way.
Like it's it's my thing with everything.
It's like if OpenAI is giving legal, medical, or psychological advice, they need to be uh subject to the same rules people are, right?
This the same everybody like I I was in Vegas for a second.
I have to tell you, you're absolutely right.
It's dead.
Vegas is dead.
Like I don't know.
You don't need to be in Vegas.
Vegas is in your pocket.
That's right.
I was like, I literally, oh my God, Scott was right.
It was so freaky to be in Vegas without people.
It felt like I was in like pleurbus, right?
It was so weird.
And you could feel the the enervation of a place that is just with these big rooms and the casinos empty.
It's weird.
And so it's it's definitely hurting businesses, right?
These kind of things, whether it's sports betting online or this kind of thing.
There's an they need to be regulated the same way everybody else is.
And and states have every right to do this.
This is this is not and maybe there should be federal gambling laws, but there haven't been really.
I think that would be good.
I think they would want that.
I think they want some regulation.
Yes.
But let me ask you that.
Let me ask you a more pointed question.
I think they would actually be up for it.
Crypto.
Please bring us regulation.
They don't want to.
Let me ask you this.
You have sons.
I think about this a lot.
Let's be clear.
Much of this is gambling.
Uh it in it and but at the same time, do you infantilize children?
And I I I I know firsthand as someone who appreciates data, there is real value in this data.
There is.
It can also be easily gamed.
So easily.
You just we don't know what's in it.
There's a lot of potential for insider trading, but the more liquid markets, people are more greedy.
Anyway, uh huge potential for insider trading.
I get it.
But let me ask you this.
Do you think it should be put they should be put out of business, regulated, or let to just run free?
Regulated.
And what does that mean?
I'm not sure.
I'm not I'm not an expert on this, but I feel like it how are gay I want to know how gambling things are regulated and how to do it.
Age gating to 21 would be one uh good start, right?
Uh uh possibly.
Yes, 21.
It's interesting.
Yes, yes, yes, actually, on certain parts.
Other parts it's fine, but yes, age gating would be one thing.
And it's not infantilizing.
We do it all the time with with with real com real businesses.
Agreed.
Porn, alcohol, military.
All it's the same, this is the same song and dance from all internet companies.
We're different.
We don't deserve the same thing.
And they get an unfair advantage here.
Um gets unfair advantage.
These these these markets get unfair advantage.
It made me very uncomfortable, for example, when uh Sienna and others sign deals with them because I'm like w because I don't think they know how to use them properly.
That's the other thing.
It can be so it's not reporting.
Like it's not it's something it's an indicator, it's a data point, but it's not i I guess I don't like them doing polls either.
So I guess I I just I find it very n weak and it can be very influential in a way.
And so I just feel like it it it obviously needs to have some regulatory thing.
With my sons, they don't actually not they're not big betters.
I don't I I'm not, I don't know why.
I mean, I I get that why like I was in Vegas for two days and I didn't bet once.
Like I was like, I walked right through the casinos, but that's me.
Um, but I just feel like it's the death threat, this reporter thing was a really interesting thing.
Like this this has implications that have been around since the dawn of time, the these and and they think they're different.
And so how I think we need to have more transparency into how they're doing things.
I think they should have, you know, they shouldn't bet on deaths.
Like, I mean, they they shouldn't be.
I don't know if we should make them not do it, or if you say, okay, you're gonna do that.
Yeah, but to be fair, I do think Cal She has said we're not gonna we're not gonna create markets and things like war that might involve an incentive that might involve death or geopolitical decisions.
So that's the kind of stuff, but there's gonna be someone who's gonna.
So maybe we need some laws, right?
I agree.
Anyway, we agree.
We have to move on.
It's a really interesting, it's a developing situation, but I think it's in every state's rights to do this.
So Calci should stop being so like high-handed with them.
Of course they're gonna come in.
It's affecting things.
So um this is exactly why the government should come in in some fashion, at least think about it, have hearings, talk about it, and and let's discuss the things.
Um, just before we finish, this is the last thing.
Uber plans to invest 1.2 billion dollars in Rivian as part of a deal to deploy 50,000 robotaxis.
I recently spoke with uh Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scuringe on on with Care Swisher.
I also saw him uh for an extended amount of time at South by Southwest.
Let's listen to a clip where he talked about self-driving.
If you're a customer and you have a choice of I can buy a car for $35,000, $40, forty thousand dollars and it can, you know, drop me at the airport, it can go to the grocery store to pick up uh you know stuff for me, it can drop a friend at a house, it can do all those things, or a car that doesn't do that, it's it's gonna be very binary, right?
I think there'll be very few people that will self-select to say, I don't want those features.
Even folks who are not comfortable with the idea of self-driving, once you experience it one or two times, it does.
I try to say that to everybody.
It's so sticky.
I but my one.
I don't know what to say.
There's my that's my sale for you.
I think that was you I was talking about.
Um it was really it was super interesting.
I think it's a real blow again to Tesla.
Um I I I drove the Rivian too at um South by Southwest.
I also they have a really nifty bike called Also, which I liked a lot.
Um I really liked that Rivian.
I I think he's interesting.
I think he's a great spokesperson for this stuff.
Um and they're wonderful.
It's a wonderful I may buy one.
I might buy an R2, um, because I was super impressed with it.
In any case, it's a really interesting um move by Uber who needs to get into this business and uh and uh and it's a good thing for Rivian, who, you know, it's a tough struggle to get these cars to get a car company going.
Um your thoughts on Rivian?
I I think it's a win-win.
I I think it's uh Rivian is subscale.
Automobile platforms cost so many billions to produce.
I think Rivian has done as good a job as anyone.
I'm moving when I move back to the U.S., I'm gonna if I buy a car and I've really enjoyed not having a car for four years, I'm probably gonna buy a Rivian.
The two is nice, it's smaller.
I was one of those people that put 5,000 bucks down on it like five, six years ago and never took delivery of it.
Oh, I should probably look into that.
Um, what's the likelihood this guy gets he gets his money back?
I I think look, Tesla's missed a real opportunity here again and again and again, but I don't think he cares about the cars anymore, does he?
I mean, he he was introducing a a cyber cab that doesn't exist and isn't being used anywhere.
I mean, think between Waymo and Rivian, I think they've sort of ran around.
But let me a uh it's also very uh one, they need more scale.
So this is a great win for Rivian.
Two, I think one of the biggest brand enhancements is to be known.
Like uh uh there are a few brands that have fallen further faster in the last 20 years and made shittier cars than Jaguar.
This is one of the great, the one of the great British brands in history.
The design in the in the cars the last 20 years have just been remarkably uninspiring.
Now, the best brand move in my opinion of Jaguar, is they have been um the car of choice that I've seen for Waymo Waymo.
Yes, they are.
So immediate, it's like, oh, Jaguar is the kind of the Pepsi generation new cool car.
I didn't even know what that I I had to look.
I I didn't even recognize the car.
And I'm like, oh, that's a Jaguar.
So it's brand enhancing for Rubian.
It gives them all sorts of scale.
And also what people have underappreciated is that the biggest winner, the obvious biggest winner in Autonomous, regardless of all the bullshit press releases, people realize it's not Tesla, it's likely Waymo.
They have the capital, they're miles ahead of everyone.
They have exponentially more miles under their belt in terms of testing this.
But there's an outside shot that the biggest winner here is going to be Uber.
Because when you control it, see, they're sort of like the Apple AI.
I love we always use it in consulting, we always use the term use the term custody of the consumer.
My first client was Levi Strauss and Company, and they were always complaining about JCPennies and Sears.
And I'm like, yeah, but they have custody of the consumer.
You need to open your own stores.
You need to go vertical to control the relationship with the consumer.
In the US, Uber has 75% market share.
They're basically a monopoly.
Yeah.
They are a ghost for Shawries are very effective.
And so what they can do is they can say they can push up an icon saying, why do you need to download the Waymo or the Tesla app?
Just click here for driverless.
Yeah.
And they could also do deals with Waymo, too.
And they can play them off against each other.
They can find the company that wants to work with them the most and get market share.
But you could also use Uber to summon Waymo if you want.
I mean, think why not?
That's why not.
Yeah.
And then take a take a large margin.
So what did Apple do?
Because they controlled custody of the billion wealthiest people in the world through UI, and people don't want to learn a new app.
They extract 20 billion dollars a year from Alphabet to be to make to make Google the default search engine.
Uber's in a position to extract extraordinary deals around Autonomous and make it and say to people, oh yeah, you want Autonomous?
No problem.
Here's the Uber app you love.
And so I I look, Waymo, it's gonna be interesting.
Autonomous, I think, I think one of the places that AI actually comes to fruition and exceeds our expectations is around Autonomous.
I agree.
The question is, what's interesting is two of the biggest winners, hands down, are gonna be Uber and Waymo.
And I wouldn't be surprised if Uber is in fact the biggest winner, because they have custody of the consumer.
Yeah.
Ultimately, I've been a big, as you know, a big proponent of uh self-driving in a safe mode.
I I will tell you, I would never get in a Tesla given I had a long talk with with RJ about, you know, the I think he's he's more on the you don't need this many points of safety, but he put them on there anyway, right?
And so compared to Elon is like, I just have one camera, the guy in the back.
Like I feel so unsafe in Tesla's in that regard.
Um and I think the way Waymo's done it is correct.
But you're right, Uber's in in a very they could have been, it could have been easily sidelined by all these companies, but they have the I always used to say they have the reservation system.
And that and you're right, it's the chain of custody.
And and you do trust Uber.
Well, what a brand.
I mean, I know Travis Callan's trying to come back in this sector, but I gotta say, D Dara took that company and really made it into one.
Like, you know, you know what is comparatively.
It's really been eye-opening for me, and it goes to something you said that's always really resonated with me, and that is the thing about tech executives.
They're traditionally white males who went to elite schools, raised in wealthy families.
And when you've never been a victim, it's difficult to understand victimization.
That's always struck me that like until I walk in those shoes, you don't.
And you know what women say to me that I it makes so much sense, and I just never realized it.
I get into an Uber, the driver doesn't usually doesn't talk to me.
I don't want to talk to him.
And I know that sounds terrible.
I just don't I don't want to talk to him.
I want to be on my phone.
Every woman I've talked to says when they get in an Uber, the Uber driver tries to chatter up.
And it's uncomfortable.
Not me, but yes.
Yes.
Well, um it's uncomfortable.
Especially if you talk to young women.
And they don't, and you know who's really used loves Waymo is women.
Women, they do.
Or else you can also now on Uber, by the way, uh f uh uh request a woman.
Um there's a they they've done a great job.
Let me tell you, Dark goes for shy.
I don't agree with everything.
I think sometimes he can be a little too compromisey with terrible people.
I think he knows it.
He's a great CEO.
Yeah, he's a great CEO.
He's done a great job here.
All right.
Uh, uh one more quick break.
We'll be back for predictions.
There's a reporter named Emmanuel Fabian who's been covering the war in Iran for the times of Israel.
Recently, he got a ton of feedback about a tiny article he wrote, but he couldn't figure out why.
It was about a missile that exploded just outside the Israeli city eight shemish.
I'd appreciate it if you could update your article.
As in its current form, it does not reflect reality.
Someone wanted him to say it was a missile fragment instead of a missile.
Weird because it was a missile, not a fragment.
If you could correct this tonight, you'd be doing me and many others a great favor.
Eventually, the messages got more threatening.
You have exactly half an hour to correct your attempted influence.
You will pay the full price for your irresponsible act.
Emmanuel finally figured out why people were getting so aggressive.
They had bet money on how bombings in Israel would play out on polymarket.
After you make us lose $900,000, we will invest no less than that to finish you.
Betting on the Iran War on Today Explained.
What's up, everybody?
It's Cam Hayward, your Steelers captain and host of Not Just Football.
And this week, we brought on the legend.
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We got to know how it started, what the vision is, and how Travis Hunter ended up choosing Young Money.
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We talked music, the Carter 6, what's coming next, and stories you have never heard before.
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New Orleans, cash money at 11 years old, and 25 years at the top, and what still drives him.
This one is different.
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Grab your tickets for Cam Hayward's draft party on April 23rd at not just football.com and use code Mr.
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Let's get it.
For a brief period of time, in the beginning of the pandemic, a time that I'm very sorry to make you have to remember.
There was this hot new app that promised to reinvent the way that we thought about social media forever.
Clubhouse was going to be the thing.
And this week on Version History, our chat show about the most interesting and important and best and worst products in tech history.
We're talking about why Clubhouse took off and then ultimately why it went away.
That's on Version History, available on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.
Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
Can I just start very quickly?
Of course.
I predict this MAGA micropenis war is gonna get worse, and I am here for it.
Do you know about this, right?
Megan Kelly said Mark Levin had a micropenis, and then uh President Trump defended his micropenis, and then Marjorie Taylor Green came in with a micropenis, and Megan Kelly's doubling down on it.
It's completely crude and awful and repulsive.
And I think it's gonna get a lot worse.
And I'm very pleased.
Thank you.
Yeah, you know, I I I don't, I don't, I think it's inappropriate to talk about man's genitalia, Cara.
Um by the way, I was at a urine stall last night, and a guy looked over and he said, circumcised, and I said, Nope, that's just the wear and tear.
Oh my god.
You've told that joke before.
I'd rather start clocking your penis jokes.
Oh, by the way, I'm not gonna say Adam Grant, but Adam Grant said you gotta cut back on the penis jokes, the party you missed because you're not gonna be a good one.
Oh, my nemesis?
Yes, your nemesis was like, the more successful version of Scott Galloway.
He's doing a podcast on the Vox Media Podcast Network with uh with Brene Brown, the two of them.
They're trying to be the nice version of Scott and Kerr, I think.
Um, and he was he commented on your penis jokes, and I said, and I literally, Scott, I I said, I love them.
I defended you so hard.
I appreciate that.
Uh and I was like, people love them.
And he's like, Yeah, but do you think it's the right thing?
I go, it's the right thing.
I'm gonna I no matter how much.
I don't want to be wrong.
And then also I want to be a little bent to the left.
Umgratulations, Brene and Adam.
It's a condition.
I'm a special needs person.
It's a condition.
Don't show me.
Micropenis.
I'm him.
Now I'm talking about mic.
Sorry, Adam, but micropenis work cracks me the fuck up, and I'm I'm here for it, and I hope more to come.
And I think I think we're not done with the micropenis.
I gotta be honest, I love it when they were with each other because one of the things I don't like about the Democratic Party is that I find for the most part, when I just went on this great podcast, PBD, this really lovely guy, he's a conservative out of Fort Lauderdale.
Oh, you want the guy, that guy.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, I like him.
I thought he was nice.
Um anyways, um the thing I find generally speaking about Republicans is they're like, oh, you want to be a Republican?
Come on in.
Uh and when you say, Oh, I want to be a progress progressive, it's like, we'll see.
It's not a good idea.
I feel like we apply way more to the micro.
There's a new Democrat in town, but go ahead.
Yeah, if you don't choose the right words, if you don't hold the gun correctly, let's court martial you and hang you.
It's the right that's doing it now, but go ahead.
No, there's you know what this is?
This is a bunch of podcasters who know the algorithm, the more fights they get into and the more incendiary they are.
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
You know, Candace Owens makes a living off of saying really vile things because the algorithms and the reason our nation is being torn apart at the seams, is there's now a financial incentive in being vile and incendiary.
The algorithms love it.
In a world where there were editors and fact checkers and more reasonable people saying, is that a reasonable thing we want to print?
She would be fucking nowhere.
Or yes, I get it.
Anyway, so I I don't I I love it when these guys fight, but at the end of the day, it's it's a it's indicative of a bigger problem, and that is our media.
Our overlords are algorithms deciding that this is news.
Oh, you're so good.
I don't care.
I like the micropenis.
Anyway, I defended you to Adam Grant on the first time.
I appreciate that.
I'm telling you, other than academic credibility and talent and higher IQ, that that dude has nothing on me.
That dude has nothing on.
Do you know he was a diver in college?
Even better.
He was a diver.
Yeah.
All his sort of like, you know, his tweets about, you know, characters doing the right thing when no one's looking.
Oh fuck you.
All right.
Move along.
Adam Grant, you and Brene Brown.
They're all your thoughtfulness and deep introspective.
Well, that's that's clear.
Brene's better than me.
I love that Brene.
Anyway, I want to be clear.
I like them both, and Adam is a friend, so I trust he's taking this all in jest.
I hope so.
One would assume.
Maybe they'll discuss it on their new show.
Maybe we should have a rumble with them.
I think we could be evil twins.
I think with his intellect and my, I don't know, my something, we could take over Australia, and Brene would be Queen of Australia.
We should do a crossover show.
We're gonna I'm gonna invite them on a crossover show.
All right, we could switch partners.
You know when they switch the husband and wives?
I've tried it, but I'm the one that ends up alone and no one's up for it.
Okay, it's called a key party.
You could have Brene and uh well, you've been on Brunership.
Anyway, finish do your do your prediction.
Uh my prediction is open AI store a social media app will be shut down soon.
Oh.
Sora.
Really?
What do you know?
You know something.
No, I don't.
I I've done no original reporting, trust me.
Okay, all right.
Um but uh they're focusing, which is the right thing to do.
Sora is essentially open AI's uh it's sort of a tick-like social media platform for AI generated content.
And users use their video model to generate short-form content.
And they can upload it and share and share it, right?
And upon its release, Sora came out at number one in the App Store and actually got more downloads out of the gates than ChatGPT did.
However, like the parties ended.
Downloads fell 32% month over month in December, and another 45% in January.
And some Sora is the little engine that didn't.
And also users continue to drop like flies.
But at the same time, OpenAI has to spend a ton of money to keep the lights on there.
And some estimates are that it also brings a lot of legal challenges.
Well, uh it's costing them 15 million bucks a day or five billion a year.
And despite that, the app is bringing in less than half a million dollars per month.
And given their new focus, which is the right one on focus, it's not central to OpenAI's uh core competences.
They're they're an AI company, not a social media company.
It's not creating revenue, big losses, and also it's really unpopular.
62% of Americans disapprove of online videos created with AI.
It's a lot more trouble than it's worth.
It feels dystopian.
Seventy percent of people globally would be uncomfortable consuming fully AI generated creative content.
So this new focus, this new adult in the room saying we need to focus on the enterprise market is now, quite frankly, we have ceded so much share and value to anthropic.
The first yeah, it's stupid.
It's stupid.
Anyways, the first example of this focus is that open AI Sora, uh, rest in peace.
It's going to be shut down.
All right.
Okay.
Oh, I like that.
That's a big that's a big call.
I think that's a good one.
Um I just want to make one other note before we go.
Um President Trump's comments about dyslexia.
Um, I have a lot of friends who have dyslexia, by the way.
He said Governor Newsom should not be present because he had dyslexia or has.
Uh gross.
What a gross thing to say.
Um just like stop it.
Like, stop like make demonizing things that are learning disabilities.
It's gross.
He does it all the time, but it's a continuum thing, and everyone just lets him go.
But honestly, what a it's just uh ugh, and I predict it will have bad effects.
Anyway.
Are you really surprised though?
No, but I just don't I'm like, no.
Like we I I I think we should keep saying no to this fucker.
I don't know.
I I put the I put the sex in dyslexia.
Wait.
Wait, sexy dyslexia.
Anyway.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I got it.
That's good.
Got it.
I got it.
Anyway, you're grotesque.
I don't I'm sorry.
I think we have to call these out all the time.
And I'm not angry about it.
It's just um we want to hear from the city.
My favorite stripper has uh has dyslexia.
Her name was Density.
Adam Grant.
Talk about character and being a good manager.
Try to compete with my stripper density.
My dyslexic stripper density.
Okay, right.
Okay, we can make a see who wins the iHeart Podcast of the Year away.
Density should be president.
Anyway, we want to hear from you.
Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.
Go to n y mag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call eight five five five one pivot.
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Today's show was produced by Lara Namon, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin.
Ernie Inter engineered this episode, Manola Moreno edited the video.
Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms.
Vera and Dan Shallon.
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Density.
That's good.
We sent here for seeing the off the rhythm hitziger debattieren als im Gerichtssaw.
Yep, darüber, welches Tablet lauter ist, welches Kabel schneller lädt und warum hundertmal denselben Trick für ein Gucken ein Grundrecht ist?
Ja, unsere Autos in them absolutely waxen.
Then egal of road trip oder Geschäftsreise, wenn ihr Flug Verspätung hat, Ihr Akku gleich aufgibt oder sich Ihr Hunger danach richten muss, was gerade offen hat, ja, auch dann sind wir für Sie hier.
Enterprise, hier für Sie.